Ship Armor Adjustments #03

[POSITRON3]

Please programmers are clarified and make an official report of the update.

I don't think we could have more complete than that.

no no _player_ mean officially we was toll armour of the ancient ships will be no lowered, but now we know from hightway last post that the ancient ship indeed have now less armour than before updated.

so player as asking for confirmation of this. I can confirm this and hightway also confirm it, explaining it was neede for keep balance in game.

 

[Fra_592]

so player as asking for confirmation of this. I can confirm this and hightway also confirm it, explaining it was neede for keep balance in game.

I was linking the official patchlog because it has been updated according to highway's last post, not as precisely however. I think we could take that as a confirmation

 

[POSITRON3]

so player as asking for confirmation of this. I can confirm this and hightway also confirm it, explaining it was neede for keep balance in game.

I was linking the official patchlog because it has been updated according to highway's last post, not as precisely however. I think we could take that as a confirmation

Agree but I think they need changed this in changelod:

"Spaceship Armor Overhaul
◦ Armor upgrades have been adjusted so that they no longer alter the ship's color.
◦ The armor values of Ancient Ships have been raised to better fit the game's difficulty curve.
◦ Methanoid armor has been strengthened to better fit the game's difficulty curve.
◦ Parsec sirius armor have been adjusted to match the balance between the draconis ships + methanoid armor and the sirius ships.
◦ Conquest planet access is now properly tailored to its system's armor level.
Parsec class ships with Sirius armor are not allowed to participate in the Draconis conquest.
Parsec class ships with Draconis armor are allowed to participate in the Draconis conquest. "

the part where they said "The armour values of ancient ships have been raised..... " most said the armour values of ancient ships have been lowered....." that make a big diference in this updadate

 

[V1-Hyper]

Hi pilots and S/S staff!

This morning I managed to take some time (7hrs) to measure the updated armor and these are my findings:

META ships
Methanoid armor (R75) increased by 6% [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R75 META-X, result: 1.059±0.001]
(Thus, Bulkwark-to-Methanoid gain increases from 3.68 to 3.90)

Parsec class
Draconis armor unchanged [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R70 Terrorizer, result: 0.996±0.007]
(Thus, keeps R70 Parsec 20% stronger than R70 META ship -- tick)

Sirius armor decreased by 15% [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R75 Parsec, result: 0.849±0.002]
(Thus, makes R75 Parsec now 20% stronger than R75 META ship -- tick)

Ancient armor is 1.7 times the old Sirius armor, or two times the updated Sirius armor [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R85 Parsec, result: 1.698±0.004]

Ancient Hybrids
Bulkwark armor increased by 74% [test: Mizar Thermo on R71 Myst, result: 1.739±0.002]

Methanoid armor decreased by 8% [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R85 Myst, result: 0.921±0.002]
(Thus, Bulkwark-to-Methanoid factor decreases from 3.68 to 1.947 -- seems odd)

It now makes the R85 Punisher just 0.92/1.7 = 54% as strong as the R85 Dominator (Pre-update they were equal). Highway, could the Ancient Hybrid ship's Methanoid armor be bugged or intended?

Best wishes
V1

 

[alewx]

It now makes the R85 Punisher just 0.92/1.7 = 54% as strong as the R85 Dominator (Pre-update they were equal). Highway, could the Ancient Hybrid ship's Methanoid armor be bugged or intended?

Best wishes
V1

Nope the Armor is not bugged, it is correct, and the strength is based on their roles.

 

[GOTIL0N]

Does the speed of the ships will like as it now ?, illogical because I see now that the Punisher (taking it for example) resist less and that its speed is less, before it was tougher, had much attack and endurance, speed it was little, but it was balanced, now you down even more speed and stamina, that makes no sense

 

[POSITRON3]

Hi pilots and S/S staff!

This morning I managed to take some time (7hrs) to measure the updated armor and these are my findings:

META ships
Methanoid armor (R75) increased by 6% [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R75 META-X, result: 1.059±0.001]
(Thus, Bulkwark-to-Methanoid factor increases from 3.68 to 3.90)

Parsec class
Draconis armor unchanged [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R70 Terrorizer, result: 0.996±0.007]
(Thus, keeps R70 Parsec 20% stronger than R70 META ship -- tick)

Sirius armor decreased by 15% [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R75 Parsec, result: 0.849±0.002]
(Thus, makes R75 Parsec now 20% stronger than R75 META ship -- tick)

Ancient armor is 1.7 times the old Sirius armor, or two times the updated Sirius armor [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R85 Parsec, result: 1.698±0.004]

Ancient Hybrids
Bulkwark armor increased by 74% [test: Mizar Thermo on R71 Myst, result: 1.739±0.002]

Methanoid armor decreased by 8% [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R85 Myst, result: 0.921±0.002]
(Thus, Bulkwark-to-Methanoid factor decreases from 3.68 to 1.947 -- seems odd)

It now makes the R85 Punisher just 0.92/1.7 = 54% as strong as the R85 Dominator (Pre-update they were equal). Highway, could the Ancient Hybrid ship's Methanoid armor be bugged or intended?

Best wishes
V1

hi there V1. in your test with the punisher you found that puni is stronger, equal or less thouter now? I mean it resist less or equal now? thanks.

 

[POSITRON3]

Hi pilots and S/S staff!

This morning I managed to take some time (7hrs) to measure the updated armor and these are my findings:

META ships
Methanoid armor (R75) increased by 6% [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R75 META-X, result: 1.059±0.001]
(Thus, Bulkwark-to-Methanoid factor increases from 3.68 to 3.90)

Parsec class
Draconis armor unchanged [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R70 Terrorizer, result: 0.996±0.007]
(Thus, keeps R70 Parsec 20% stronger than R70 META ship -- tick)

Sirius armor decreased by 15% [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R75 Parsec, result: 0.849±0.002]
(Thus, makes R75 Parsec now 20% stronger than R75 META ship -- tick)

Ancient armor is 1.7 times the old Sirius armor, or two times the updated Sirius armor [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R85 Parsec, result: 1.698±0.004]

Ancient Hybrids
Bulkwark armor increased by 74% [test: Mizar Thermo on R71 Myst, result: 1.739±0.002]

Methanoid armor decreased by 8% [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R85 Myst, result: 0.921±0.002]
(Thus, Bulkwark-to-Methanoid factor decreases from 3.68 to 1.947 -- seems odd)

It now makes the R85 Punisher just 0.92/1.7 = 54% as strong as the R85 Dominator (Pre-update they were equal). Highway, could the Ancient Hybrid ship's Methanoid armor be bugged or intended?

Best wishes
V1

hi there V1. in your test with the punisher you found that puni is stronger, equal or less thouter now? I mean it resist less or equal now? thanks.

I understood preupdate was equal to a dominator and now are much weaker, just want to confirm.

 

[POSITRON3]

well well, something smell very bad.

now the best preupdate ship (at least for me) puni is now much weaker than before.

I am currently finishing obsidian ship for Sirius. only need toinstall couple of weapons and drone slots.

I will test it when I finished it. (I think today or tomorrow I will finished it) with my old puni, gravis and booster I was able to quick kill alone any big in r5 except keops. I will try it with obsidian now, I knoght attack power of obsidian is just a lilter less than puni, so I spect some time more for kill the bigs. (I can accept that)

If now I can not solo r5 bigs like I did with puni before update, I will leave the game and forum and all relate to pg. because I am totally disagree that after such big wait we now stay worse than before update. I like this game, I just hope I can solo r5 bigs with this obsidian like I did with puni before upgrade.

(note: I know I can solo it with much other ships but time for kill is too long. I mean quick kill)

I prey.

 

[POSITRON3]

Hi pilots and S/S staff!

This morning I managed to take some time (7hrs) to measure the updated armor and these are my findings:

META ships
Methanoid armor (R75) increased by 6% [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R75 META-X, result: 1.059±0.001]
(Thus, Bulkwark-to-Methanoid factor increases from 3.68 to 3.90)

Parsec class
Draconis armor unchanged [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R70 Terrorizer, result: 0.996±0.007]
(Thus, keeps R70 Parsec 20% stronger than R70 META ship -- tick)

Sirius armor decreased by 15% [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R75 Parsec, result: 0.849±0.002]
(Thus, makes R75 Parsec now 20% stronger than R75 META ship -- tick)

Ancient armor is 1.7 times the old Sirius armor, or two times the updated Sirius armor [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R85 Parsec, result: 1.698±0.004]

Ancient Hybrids
Bulkwark armor increased by 74% [test: Mizar Thermo on R71 Myst, result: 1.739±0.002]

Methanoid armor decreased by 8% [test: Sol Anc Thermo on R85 Myst, result: 0.921±0.002]
(Thus, Bulkwark-to-Methanoid factor decreases from 3.68 to 1.947 -- seems odd)

It now makes the R85 Punisher just 0.92/1.7 = 54% as strong as the R85 Dominator (Pre-update they were equal). Highway, could the Ancient Hybrid ship's Methanoid armor be bugged or intended?

Best wishes
V1

hi there V1. in your test with the punisher you found that puni is stronger, equal or less thouter now? I mean it resist less or equal now? thanks.

v1 other question, since you had preupdate dominator resistence value. and now have actual dominator resistence value and you have preupdate puni resistence value, can you post here how much is the actual puni resistence value compare with the puni preupdate resistence value please.

 

[V1-Hyper]

v1 other question, since you had preupdate dominator resistence value. and now have actual dominator resistence value and you have preupdate puni resistence value, can you post here how much is the actual puni resistence value compare with the puni preupdate resistence value please.

Hi POSITRON3,
The R85 Punisher (Methanoid aromr installed), and the other R85 Ancient Hybrids, lost 8% hitpoints.

 

[POSITRON3]

v1 other question, since you had preupdate dominator resistence value. and now have actual dominator resistence value and you have preupdate puni resistence value, can you post here how much is the actual puni resistence value compare with the puni preupdate resistence value please.

Hi POSITRON3,
The R85 Punisher (Methanoid aromr installed), and the other R85 Ancient Hybrids, lost 8% hitpoints.

thanks very much for your data also I want confess my admiration to you for your incredible and great work in your HITCHHIKER'S GUIDE TO PG. Simply awesome.

About the loss 8% seen no so big but when I fly the ship feel so much diferent.

that 8% make much diference. I supose when armour drone act over actual hit point also lose a tiny amount of hit points too, since de base armour is less now.

Well, I will wait until I can test new obsidian and see if we are better or worse against mantis now.

Thaks again.

 

[V1-Hyper]

Thank you, much appreciated

 

[CaptSmiley]

what i find interesting about this is that we were told methanoid armor was going to be STRENGTHENED.

 

[CaptSmiley]

V1-Hyper dude you are awesome thanks for doing the tests

 

[HGus]

The R85 Punisher (Methanoid aromr installed), and the other R85 Ancient Hybrids, lost 8% hitpoints.

I am not sure about that. You tested the Myst, but maybe the relative values between Ancients ships have been changed too, so you cannot assume that Punisher/Myst ratio (112.5/84.2) is still like before the update. Actually I think that armor index for Myst changed to 75 (see below). To ensure it a rough test should be done in other Ancient ships. If it gives a different result than expected, all Ancients will need tested carefully. If the new Methanoid/Bulkwark ratio for Ancients is 1.947 (should be 2 to keep the balance with Ancient Parsecs), then the Thermograde and Deluvian changed too. They need tests.

Now the answer to some questions arised. First the facts numbers got from V1-Hyper tests and old values:

• META Storm --
  • Deluvian: 3205.7;
  • old Methanoid: 5129.2; new Methanoid: 5435.9
• AnIn-12 Parsec --
  • Draconis: 3846.9;
  • old Sirius: 7693.8; new Sirius: 6539.8;
  • Ancient: 13079.5
• Ancient Myst --
  • old Bulkwark: 2347.7; new Bulkwark: 4084.9;
  • old Deluvian: 5399.7; old armor-idx: 84.2 (5399.7/ (7693.8/1.2))
  • old Methanoid: 8639.6; New Methanoid: 7948.4

That gives this new strenght list:

1. META Storm Deluvian 3205.7
   AnIn-12 Parsec Draconis 3846.9
   Ancient Myst Bulkwark 4084.9
   META Storm Methanoid 5435.9
   AnIn-12 Parsec Sirius 6539.8
   Ancient Myst Methanoid 7948.4
   AnIn-12 Parsec Ancient 13079.5

What is the new armor index for Myst?

- The old value was calculated as (DeluvianMystHP / SiriusParsecHP x 1.2 x 100) = 84.2. That is the relative HP of the Deluvian armored Myst to an hypothetical Deluvian storm (Sirius Parsec HP over 1.2) used as base for all other Ancient ships armor indexes. The new Sirius armor was decreased to match Methanoid armored Draconis ships plus 20%. If the new Methanoid/Bulkwark (1.947) and Ancient/Sirius (2.0) ratios got by V1-Hyper are correct, we find a discrepancy here. The "hypothetical Deluvian storm" cannot be used as before because (Sirius Parsec HP over 1.2) now is merely a "Methanoid armored Draconis storm".

- Based in these new facts, the new armor index for Myst is (BulkwarkMystHP / SiriusParsecHP x 1.2 x 100) or just (BulkwarkMystHP / MethDracoStorm x 100) and gives (4084.9 / 5435.9 x 100) ~ 75. The discrepancy is seen if you calculate an hypothetic Ancient storm as (AncientParsecHP / 1.2), the armor index for Methanoid Myst is (7948.4 / 13079.5 x 1.2 x 100) ~ 73. That means a 2% disadvantage for Methanoid Ancient ships vs. Ancient Proto/Raven ships compared with Bulkwark Ancient vs Sirius Proto/Raven.

 

[V1-Hyper]

The R85 Punisher (Methanoid aromr installed), and the other R85 Ancient Hybrids, lost 8% hitpoints.

I am not sure about that. You tested the Myst, but maybe the relative values between Ancients ships have been changed too, so you cannot assume that Punisher/Myst ratio (112.5/84.2) is still like before the update. ..

As I was quite surprised by the result I also checked the Punisher - same result: 92% of its old HP. It is fairly safe to say all Ancient Hybrids have been re-scaled equally.

 

[HGus]

With these new values, the weakest R85 Prototypes (Constructor and Disruptor) are 17% stronger than the R85 Punisher.

UltimateDarkStar1337 from Solaria did an interesting video about the update. At 10m you can see a fast show of Black Granite and Punisher on ring 5 with the new armors.

 

[V1-Hyper]

- Based in these new facts, the new armor index for Myst is (BulkwarkMystHP / SiriusParsecHP x 1.2 x 100) or just (BulkwarkMystHP / MethDracoStorm x 100) and gives (4084.9 / 5435.9 x 100) ~ 75. The discrepancy is seen if you calculate an hypothetic Ancient storm as (AncientParsecHP / 1.2), the armor index for Methanoid Myst is (7948.4 / 13079.5 x 1.2 x 100) ~ 73. That means a 2% disadvantage for Methanoid Ancient ships vs. Ancient Proto/Raven ships compared with Bulkwark Ancient vs Sirius Proto/Raven.

I see you line of thought, I think it works, almost. There's a factor "2" though. My argumentation for the new armor indices would go like this. (and I'll probably have to implement it this way as I see no room for wiggle)

We will agree that hitpoints are calculated as product of:
HP = Armor Grade index * Ship Class index * Ship Level * Armor Bonus

In the simulator I (arbitrarily) scaled everything to Bulkwark Phoenix S = 1, which is done by my scaling factor "150". Thus I call it relative Hitpoints (rHP) because they are not absolute:
rHP = Armor Grade index * Ship Class index * Ship Level * Armor Bonus / 150

Examples
Bulk-Phoenix S___________old Bulk-Myst____________old Meth-Myst
Grade = Bulkwark = 1_____Grade = Bulkwark = 1_____Grade = Methanoid = 3.68
Class = Raider = 150______Class = A.Myst = 84.22_____Class = A.Myst = 84.22
Level = "0" (pod) = 1______Level = 85 = 4181.4_______Level = 85 = 4181.4
Bonus = None = 1_________Bonus = None = 1_________Bonus = None = 1
rHP = 1*150*1*1/150 = 1___rHP = 2347.7____________rHP = 8639.6

So far so good....
Because we now know that new Bulk-Myst = 4085.0 rHP and new Meth-Myst = 7948.4 rHP, the indices come out as follows:

new Bulk-Myst
Grade = Bulkwark = 1 (Bulkwark is by definition 1)
Class = A.Myst = 84.22*1.74 = 146.54
Level = 85 = 4181.4 (cannot change as it's linked to all other R85 ships, too)
Bonus = None = 1
rHP = 4085.0

new Meth-Myst
Grade = Methanoid = 3.68*0.92/1.74 = 1.947
Class = A.Myst = 146.54 (constant)
Level = 85 = 4181.4
Bonus = None = 1
rHP = 7953.5

So, I will have to set the Myst "armor index" to 146.54. Your proposed 73 would work the same if it was for a factor x2. Except, there is no room in the equation for a factor 2 here. Unless I cannot see it, please explain again. I'm always happy to learn.

Best wishes
V1

 

[HGus]

This discussion about HHG's internals is going out of topic here. Let's continue by PM. I find that HHG's chat doesn't have enough room to explain these things too.