Sirius Adjustments #5

[-BoH-]

As far as i am concerned this does look like a complex update but thanks for showing ud planned changes.

 

[serebus]

And when are we to expect this marvelous wonder of an update.

 

[bobo0815]

Hi Highway,

this sounds pretty good and is really important point to improve that because bp drop mechanism is a big source of getting frustrated ingame.

I like playing around with these new features in my head and agree to that players which do more should earn more bp´s & kry but helping one player in squad should also benefit from these improvments.

Looking forward what we get and how it feels while playing ..... ^^ :mrorange:

 

[Crash]

Changes sound nice, really nice.
I hope that drop rate of cryo will be increased in sirius.

What about helping lower players with blueprints? Currently we can one-shoot mantis to drop bunch of BPs for player in squad who just arrived to system. What will be the drop rate with minim "effort factor" possible? Does it start from *1 and increases?

 

[Stedy]

HeyHo guys,
What do you think about having a bigger Squad limit? At least for the fifth ring it seems to be very useful if you are able to build squads with e.g. eight to ten pilots...
Stedy

 

[tonyikego]

One concern that I have is that the changes you list could potentially make it much more difficult and time consuming to help clanmates with tech. I hope this is neither your intention nor an unintended consequence of the changes. I would not recommend increasing the drudgery factor in the game again.

 

[blackdragon911]

So what happens when you are killing a boss/giza in squad and you get podded/crashes or whatever just before boss/giza gets killed? will u still be able to see bp/cry drop or will u be standing there with nothing.

 

[hektor.barbossa]

Hmm Hmm

Too much Devs complicate....
For what change all drop code if just gives sq bonus to cryo,bp drop rate and even fire power to faster kills.
More ppl in sq,more % bonuses and all.

We dont want have problems with low lvl players to complete for him bp.Same abaut crash,lags,pods.

I hope some day you will up ships with special skill for group and max 10 ppl on sq will be sweet
to dont have problems with new system drop

Anyway awesome changes.

 

[POSITRON3]

Wao incredible and big update this 23, I am surprise of all the work they are putting in the game. Amazing.

 

[Highway]

Thanks for your questions and feedback. We are very happy to see that you like what we have planned so far, especially because it involves a core aspect of the game. Now let me give you some answers of your questions.

1. Was wondering if still possible to help other players with getting BPs even if they didn't shoot the target, so if they didn't hit it they won't see the BP? even if you got the BP complete yourself?

2. And was wondering for Giza, do all players that helped killing it get 3 BPs each then ?

1. A player will not see any drops if he did not shoot the target or have not supported a player that attacking the target. Its also not relevant if a player already have completed the BP in the drop calculation. So in this aspect a player that needs help from other players must at least participate if he wants to get Bps or cryonite.

2. Each player that is participating in a fight against the giza will have a chance to get his own 3 Bps. But it can also happen that he gets less or none depending on his own effort and the dice roll.

if i understand well, you cant see drops from other players anymore?
for what do we need a squad then ? you cant not change that part... is a pirate game and you cant even steal things? woot?

Yes that's correct. You will not see drops from other players and can only see and pickup your own drops. For the pirate aspect we have some nice things up our sleeves but that will come after Tau Ceti.

1. What if only one Pilot of a squad needs parts to complete a Blueprint? Then 4 People seeing Blueprints they already have but their Friend who needs them is unable to collect them.
Maybe they help him most by staying away so that at least he gets the full charge by shooting on his own. As most ppl are egoistic scrublords, i dont know if this supports Teamplay in the case where one Player needs help with a Blueprint. Only for Cryo? mhmm maybe?

2. I will miss stealing things from other Pilots, which was a really Pirate Feature. We need to keep Pirate culture and pissing other ppl off somehow without PM ;-) Maybe we can introduce something that active PM makes Blueprints visible intrasquad for everybody that got PM active.

3. I see no need to split instances on R5 in future. Just increase Spawnrate and make Giza only visible for Clanmates. This could bring communitys gameplay more together.

1. Thats a good point and we as well thought about that, but wanted to first get some feedback from the Community about this. Its Important that it stays in balance to not make it to easy to push players, especially since more Bps will be dropped in groups.

2. Yes these stuff can be fun but as well frustrating, especially with the current Drop system. For more on that see the response above

3. Indeed that would be a good thing to do, especially because it would bring players together. But there are other changes required as well before that can be adjusted. It might come up on the Part 2 of the Sirius adjustments

Looking forward what we get and how it feels while playing ..... ^^ :mrorange:

When the PTR is ready for public testing, we will let you know

What about helping lower players with blueprints? Currently we can one-shoot mantis to drop bunch of BPs for player in squad who just arrived to system. What will be the drop rate with minim "effort factor" possible? Does it start from *1 and increases?

One concern that I have is that the changes you list could potentially make it much more difficult and time consuming to help clanmates with tech. I hope this is neither your intention nor an unintended consequence of the changes. I would not recommend increasing the drudgery factor in the game again.

Its nice & important that players can help others to get stuff they need. But it should not be a free ticket and the player still must himself be active in the combat to earn his stuff. The player effort is a % of the total effort made by all players involved when the target is destroyed. We can not tell you exact numbers since there are additional parameters increasing the effort that still needs to be tested through until it feels good. We also look into alternatives on how players can support other players since the change of the drop system would make that aspect a bit more difficult.

So what happens when you are killing a boss/giza in squad and you get podded/crashes or whatever just before boss/giza gets killed? will u still be able to see bp/cry drop or will u be standing there with nothing.

Yes, as long a player is still on the planet surface of the target he will see his Drops.

 

[tonyikego]

I could not be more disappointed. Yes, you will achieve slowing progress through the game and more people quitting the game . It will become so tedious and time consuming to help lower level clanmates that many higher level players will stop helping (and stop playing). Many more lower level players will quit.
I have never given players a free ride through the game. I have assisted players with attaining tech and with story missions while they are required to do their own leveling and cryo hunting. I have not and do not assist players in getting to a new system until they have achieved the appropriate level.
This is a change that will hurt the game and the number of players will shrink even more.

 

[Vigilante]

Might as well change the name of the game too while you're at it! Can you guys give any insight into 'why'' the game needs to be changed so fundamentally?

 

[C_D]

"1. A player will not see any drops if he did not shoot the target or have not supported a player that attacking the target. Its also not relevant if a player already have completed the BP in the drop calculation. So in this aspect a player that needs help from other players must at least participate if he wants to get Bps or cryonite."

This poses a problem for high leveled players helping lower leveled guys with their blueprints in the lower systems greatly. The way we do it at the moment, (In the systems other than Sirius) is that the big guys shoot the enemies in order to drop blueprints while all the little guy has to do is collect and complete them. Since we usually destroy enemies in a single shot, the small guys have little to no time to make a contribution. If you implement this, it would make hunting blueprints for smaller guys much more tedious and time-consuming than it already is, since we have to wait for the lower leveled player to shoot first, instead of us. For Sirius, this idea is good but for the lower systems, this would only work if there were still many active people, but right now, there's just no sustainable playerbase to make this concept work.

I highly suggest you take some time off developing, really analyze the situation of your game like interacting with the players DIRECTLY in-game (GMs don't suffice), and rethink your decisions please.

 

[Crash]

"1. A player will not see any drops if he did not shoot the target or have not supported a player that attacking the target. Its also not relevant if a player already have completed the BP in the drop calculation. So in this aspect a player that needs help from other players must at least participate if he wants to get Bps or cryonite."

This poses a problem for high leveled players helping lower leveled guys with their blueprints in the lower systems greatly. The way we do it at the moment, (In the systems other than Sirius) is that the big guys shoot the enemies in order to drop blueprints while all the little guy has to do is collect and complete them. Since we usually destroy enemies in a single shot, the small guys have little to no time to make a contribution. If you implement this, it would make hunting blueprints for smaller guys much more tedious and time-consuming than it already is, since we have to wait for the lower leveled player to shoot first, instead of us. For Sirius, this idea is good but for the lower systems, this would only work if there were still many active people, but right now, there's just no sustainable playerbase to make this concept work.

I highly suggest you take some time off developing, really analyze the situation of your game like interacting with the players DIRECTLY in-game (GMs don't suffice), and rethink your decisions please.

I agree with this post. Dropping BPs for lower level players is already time consuming because we need to drop few parts of the same BP from mobs that land once a while and still there are other BPs that low level player doesn't want which can drop from the same mobs. When it comes to BPs from menders of commanders then it's even worse.

Yeah, we had to do it ourselves in the past but we had armors the moment we entered the system and now new players don't. Now low systems serve no purpose and are more like insanely long tutorial before Sirius. Why Sirius? Because if new player wants to be competitive on CQs or Colossus then non-standard ancients BPs are needed like strong variants of some items. Fully gold is acceptable but it's inferior, try fighting in a storm versus tank with gold aggro and aim scrambler and versus a tank with strong aggro and strong aim scrambler... There are no activities other than occasional events where low level player can do something interesting other than grind. Before ancient BPs even top blue tech could do something at CQs.

Level-wall behind armors make people even more dependent on highlevel players to drop BPs for them. To survive on for example Molikar player needs Deluvian and it's leveling all the way up to 43lvl with Baumar BPs. Considering low new player retention, players on lower systems shouldn't have even harder time(armors from level was already a big hit to them). Dropping BPs for them isn't a "free ride". We drop BPs for them so they can get reasonable experience, cryo and maybe even missions alone. I don't want to babysit in Engi a Bulwark/Thermograde storm on Moli so he can destroy mantis on his own and not get almost instapodded by 44lvl DS because he can't buy an armor. I have already an idea how I will be able to still get BPs for new players with this new system but I will keep it to myself, lol. Low systems are empty and rarely new players get to Sirius or even Draconis before quitting.

Also, if you want to reduce giza BP drop rate then I hope that it will be still high.

 

[Green]

The Idea behind this is that higher ranked Players have to play with the System Ship for the System so you stop the way to collect Blueprints fast in my opinion.


MFG GreenSpider

 

[Crash]

The Idea behind this is that higher ranked Players have to play with the System Ship for the System so you stop the way to collect Blueprints fast in my opinion.


MFG GreenSpider

Good luck with that. No one would help low level players with this. Currently rarely someone new reaches Sirius, with something like this is would insanely difficult because no one would like to help. Especially in Draconis.
This idea should be scrapped ASAP. Everyone in squad should get a chance of getting a BP, at least give minimum effort factor for every mob destroyed by squdmate even if someone didn't do anything. New players shouldn't have harder.

 

[space mercenary]

ok let's see the personalized drop is a really good point the bad thing is the "effort" part, if a high lvl player is going to help a new player, we would have to use a ship with the same lvl for even help them with bps?

if we use a high lvl ship destroying everything with one shoot the new pilot won't get nothing beacause they don't do any "effort" with those mantis also we have the same case against a giza the high players will do most of the damage and the new one won't get nothing because most of the time the new ones in sirius are equipped with bps of draconis so they don't do a lot of "effort" against ancients

I hope you quited the part of "effort" in this update, if you do what I'm thinking you will end with this game and everyone I think is agree with me because we won't going to have any motivation helping new players in the end we would have to work double for less reward

 

[Crash]

ok let's see the personalized drop is a really good point the bad thing is the "effort" part, if a high lvl player is going to help a new player, we would have to use a ship with the same lvl for even help them with bps?

if we use a high lvl ship destroying everything with one shoot the new pilot won't get nothing beacause they don't do any "effort" with those mantis also we have the same case against a giza the high players will do most of the damage and the new one won't get nothing because most of the time the new ones in sirius are equipped with bps of draconis so they don't do a lot of "effort" against ancients

I hope you quited the part of "effort" in this update, if you do what I'm thinking you will end with this game and everyone I think is agree with me because we won't going to have any motivation helping new players in the end we would have to work double for less reward

Effort factor is buffed when player doesn't have sufficient level, for example draconis tech in sirius. In theory effort factor of new sirius player will be buffed enough to match the effort of full sirius player. But honestly effort factor seems too complicated and it sounds that it makes life of non-sirius players harder. I suppose that it's mainly here to give very high chance of dropping BPs for players who solo bosses on sirius. In sirius effort factor seems ok, but it's a huge problem in lower systems and as you said, high level won't help low level players and even more low level players will quit.

There's not enough players in lower systems. Often they need help of high level players, especially with armor level restrictions. There's no reason to stay in lower system longer than it's mandatory because there's no worthwhile activities in lower systems. Splitscreen shouldn't make gameplay of low systems more difficult for new players. Instead, splitscreen should do something to encourage new players or there will be only r85s in game.

 

[Fra_592]

Simply had a delay after which all drops from an unit become seeable for every participating squad and most problems should be solved
You would then have both personnalized drops based on effort and overall drop rate increase while wasting/monopolizing drops naturally disappears.

 

[tonyikego]

Apparently, any pilot who has received help with tech is a worthless slacker and must be punished.