Moderation needs revamping before it gets too late.

[Drepanon]

We are replying to this thread to listen to you guys, we want your opinions and your feedback so we can adjust the Coc's according to what you guys want.
So to do this successfully, so please keep your hostility and mean comments to yourself. \
You want us to help you, but hostility will not help either sides.

 

[ClockWire]

Selethen every comment you come out with is aggressive but turns it around and say we are the ones being aggressive carry on i will ban you from the forums!

 

[Drepanon]

" The CoC was edit today to fix a typo someone pointed out but the general CoC has not been fully updated the rules still remain the same till the devs change these. Once the devs make changes they will be announced on galaxy news. "
This does not address the point I made.

"We have had a meeting with the one of the devs and brought up a lot of issues you as pilots are having with the CoC and they will be having a meeting them selfs to discuess these issues. these is a thing in the CoC that does state that we can change the CoC to suit our needs as some CoC violations can have loopholes"
There's a difference between the right to change CoC when needed, and the right to ban people without reason.

"Maybe instead of using the quick chat feature maybe just maybe you could open the chat up fully to just double check which chat room you are in?"
I would prefer if you refrain from passive-aggressive statements like these, I don't feel like they contribute much substance to the discussion.

This was not a passive aggressive opinion, that was a suggestion to solve your issue.
As for the Devs changing the CoC it is not simple, it is much more complicated, so please ask question and not make assumption because your assumptions are wrong!

 

[dragonarh]

That sayd it means "crazy" "Foolish" and "stupid" those are all insulting words against the CoC. I understand the meaning behind it and it is technically harmless. But if a pilot reports abuse and says they're offended then we are required to act.

Well that is the whole reason behind this thread id say if I was asked. Word such as that can be offensive, but it doesn't mean that it is and its exactly the reason we have CoC and moderators. In ideal situation they determine whether someone meant it as an offence or not, and act accordingly. If someone used a word "baka" it doesn't mean they insulted someone and should be punished, as I was before as well for greeting a friend I must admit. Cant just go punishing everyone after just seeing a word.. that's like sending prisoners to jail before u determined whether they are guilty at all lol

 

[ClockWire]

If this carries on with trolling etc we will lock this thread and end this discussion

 

[Drepanon]

This is why the CoC need updating. Punishments should be given based on the severity of the violation at hand, not based on how many previous ones you have.

The only issue with this, if we do go based on severity it would be open to interpretation. So a GM/CM could find the issue more severe then another. Having a previous punishment keeps its fair and does not allow room for anyone to just give the punishment they want because 1 GM thinks its more severe then the other, or if support finds it more severe then we do. Remember most punishments come from pilots reporting eachother.

 

[selethen]

I didn't intend to be offensive, I am pointing out what I see as problems that need a solution. Since there seems to be hostility on both sides despite me trying to be civilised about it, I will refrain from posting further until a developer has looked and commented on this thread. If no developer comments (given some time), I think that will say quite a bit.

 

[Drepanon]

Well that is the whole reason behind this thread id say if I was asked. Word such as that can be offensive, but it doesn't mean that it is and its exactly the reason we have CoC and moderators. In ideal situation they determine whether someone meant it as an offence or not, and act accordingly. If someone used a word "baka" it doesn't mean they insulted someone and should be punished, as I was before as well for greeting a friend I must admit. Cant just go punishing everyone after just seeing a word.. that's like sending prisoners to jail before u determined whether they are guilty at all lol

Like i said , this is part of the CoC it may not be offensive all the time but if a pilot reports you and says they're offensive it is our job to fix the issue. For now please refrain from saying it until we can get the CoC updating. I know it sucks but its just 1 word to hold off until we can figure something out.

 

[ClockWire]

The devs are away on weekend i will make it the top priority come monday for Faye to bring this to the attention of Highway

 

[Exup]

Greetings all.

Ok first thing to point out and ill show you all, the exact thing that was changed on the Code Of Conduct today, it was no real important change but in fact to correct a typo which was pointed out to us today.



So if you check the CoC now you will see that this has been corrected and no other changes have been made, there have been some feedback from the community in light of this to myself, to other CM's and our Support team and suggestions have been forwarded on and some changes will be done soon (when the code of conduct is updated it will be on the forum and an announcement in game in galaxy news that the code of conduct has been changed.

I have been part of the GM team for 8 years now, and yes I agree I am only human, sometimes I can get things wrong also, if at any time you disagree with me then fine point it out, ingame or drop me a forum message, as long as its polite then it will be re-assessed by me or another CM to put a fresh pair of eyes on something.

Now I will say I find that comment that complaints never reach developers a bit unfair, as unless you are part of the GM team, you are not fully understanding or privy to how we do work, but ill explain a little for those who not quite sure how it works.

Our Gm team consists of TGM's to LGM's as well as a Community Managers if you check the GM Roster you will see who is who, and any issues, problems, complaints are fedback to us Community Managers, who feed this back to developers through Head Of Community Manager, and I have to say HCM Faye does get contacted by my frequently (maybe too frequently they may add!) so all info which would require developers input or attention is fedback, however not every idea or suggestion is viable, maybe through product limitations or its going away from the direction the devs are hoping for, but for whatever reason if its something the devs like and can do then they will look into it, so you can carry on posting suggestions for game play on the forum, and maybe your idea would be added next.

Profanity filters was mentioned, but if this was to be added, we all know that some pilots would look for a work around not limited to changing characters like $ for s an € for E etc etc, and devs would have to find every profanity, insult and phrases that cause offence in every single language, this would take time, and vital development time from the game we all love.

like I said above if you want to contact me feel free to drop me a message on the forum.

 

[Drepanon]

With the punishment structure that is out of our hands, we have no say so in the structure it is not up to us.
We will request it be editted, but thats the most we can do.

 

[Razor2278]

I invite you to kalgan, where you can write in any language

 

[Risk]

I understand the need for a CoC to exist and for people to enforce these terms, but the most significant problems right now are with the nature of escalatory punishments and how ambiguous CoC interpretations leads to chat sniping, with players using the report tool as a weapon.

In terms of ambiguity, I have seen GMs differ on their interpretations of certain words and phrases - one GM might take a more lenient approach while another might be more overzealous towards the same offence.

To argue that 'baka' is an insult no matter the context is in my opinion too absolutist and removes nuance. The word is used uncensored on children's programs. If there is friendly banter between players and it is clear that no one directly involved in the banter is taking offence i.e no one directly involved submits a ticket, then reasonably, punishments should not be pursued, let alone a draconian escalated punishment based off of prior or especially, unrelated offences.

Imagine you're greeting your friend in public and he slaps your back a couple of times during a hug. Now, a bitter, disgruntled, completely unrelated bystander sees the back slap through their sunglasses, sees an opportunity, and calls the police to report a vicious assault. The police arrive and instead of asking the assaulted back slap victim if they want to press charges against their friend, the police handcuff the brutal backslapper and drag him away, kicking and screaming, to be locked up for 30 days. The world is made a safer place.

Joking aside, you get my point. The current system cultivates and encourages the stalking of chats to gather screenshots to be used as weapons in reports. This can only be achieved when the context is stripped and nuance is not considered. This in combination with excessively harsh penalties that do not scale effectively based on the severity of the isolated offence results in an unhealthy chat culture.

You might say 'just don't break the rules of the CoC and you'll be fine', but with the ambiguity of some of the ways rules can be interpreted, the only way to truly be immune from snitching is to mainly not talk in game and just use Discord. I've been doing that myself for a while now, but I hope there will a better solution in the future that encourages a more active, less walking-on-eggshells chat environment.

 

[Drepanon]

Well like we said we understand but until the CoC is changed if a pilot reports "baka" and support sends it to us, we have to sanction it , we have to.
As for GM Abuse, if you experience this then you need to screenshot it with a timestamp and send it in. If you do not have any evidence and just send a message saying GM Abuse there's nothing we can do as we cant prove either side.
As for the punishment structure i agree it does need to be changed but for the time being this is the way it must be.
Also when you say " In terms of ambiguity, I have seen GMs differ on their interpretations of certain words and phrases - one GM might take a more lenient approach while another might be more overzealous towards the same offence. ". I will need you to elaborate, do you mean they give you a more aggressive punishment or they are aggressive in chat?

 

[Drepanon]

I understand the need for a CoC to exist and for people to enforce these terms, but the most significant problems right now are with the nature of escalatory punishments and how ambiguous CoC interpretations leads to chat sniping, with players using the report tool as a weapon.

In terms of ambiguity, I have seen GMs differ on their interpretations of certain words and phrases - one GM might take a more lenient approach while another might be more overzealous towards the same offence.

To argue that 'baka' is an insult no matter the context is in my opinion too absolutist and removes nuance. The word is used uncensored on children's programs. If there is friendly banter between players and it is clear that no one directly involved in the banter is taking offence i.e no one directly involved submits a ticket, then reasonably, punishments should not be pursued, let alone a draconian escalated punishment based off of prior or especially, unrelated offences.

Imagine you're greeting your friend in public and he slaps your back a couple of times during a hug. Now, a bitter, disgruntled, completely unrelated bystander sees the back slap through their sunglasses, sees an opportunity, and calls the police to report a vicious assault. The police arrive and instead of asking the assaulted back slap victim if they want to press charges against their friend, the police handcuff the brutal backslapper and drag him away, kicking and screaming, to be locked up for 30 days. The world is made a safer place.

Joking aside, you get my point. The current system cultivates and encourages the stalking of chats to gather screenshots to be used as weapons in reports. This can only be achieved when the context is stripped and nuance is not considered. This in combination with excessively harsh penalties that do not scale effectively based on the severity of the isolated offence results in an unhealthy chat culture.

You might say 'just don't break the rules of the CoC and you'll be fine', but with the ambiguity of some of the ways rules can be interpreted, the only way to truly be immune from snitching is to mainly not talk in game and just use Discord. I've been doing that myself for a while now, but I hope there will a better solution in the future that encourages a more active, less walking-on-eggshells chat environment.

Also if you want to change the structure how would you purpose we do it?

 

[Drepanon]

Most abuse reports are not actual abuse reports. They report the GM because they were muted or banned and they consider that abuse and it is not. There is no actual abuse they just don't like the punishment, but the GM is only doing their job. You guys must remember we also have bosses we dont just run a muck. We have a set of rules we also must follow.
Also remember there are most stricter rules. In Dino storm you get punished for using the word "noob".

 

[hektor.barbossa]

this game is dead, end of topic

 

[katana88]

Hey everyone


This idea i come up with is optimal for both sides : Devs & GM team and players.
and hopefully it reaches to people who makes the CoC

I agree that bots cannot be as good as gms, gms do more things than just banning/muting players.
they take care of game generally, report bugs and etc etc.

indeed chat needs some moderating so it will not go wild but main issue in my eyes is the way of punishing players.

to specify more, banning player for writing something unwanted according CoC is little bit overdoing it.

lets say we have player who does not behave in chat. he insults, flames others and so on.
there is already simple and effective way to solve this - mute.
- main issue comes from chat, right ? so we prevent him from chatting, simple.
- he still plays, he still pays, game still active, business still running.
- banning someone who exploits/cheats/hacks is acceptable but just for breaking chat rules ?
- as i said above, problem comes from someone typing something unwanted in chat, so why to prevent him from playing ? just mute is less painful and effective way in my opinion.
- almost everyone nowadays use discord to communicate anyway.
- if someone is rude to gm/cm, mute is more than enough to solve problem and give player time to cooldown.
- not even talking about scenarios when if someone types something bad or non english word because of well known chat bug and it happens his 5th or 6th warning or i dunno on which warning banning starts.
so dude is active, dude is paying (supporting game in other words) but he cant play because of technical mistake which was not even his fault to start with.
he gets ban and he cant play for month. all the boosters and stuff he bought is wasted - great way to drive active and payer people away.
but if there was just mute as punishment, not so much problem because as i said above, almost everyone use discord or other communication platforms nowadays.

so just dont ban people because of breaking chat rules and everyone happy in my opinion.

 

[Drepanon]

Hey everyone
I dont have luxury of so much time to read all the posts here, tho i know what is main topic.
so if i write something that has been already answered or posted, sorry in advance

This idea i come up with is optimal for both sides : Devs & GM team and players.
and hopefully it reaches to people who makes the CoC

I agree that bots cannot be as good as gms, gms do more things than just banning/muting players.
they take care of game generally, report bugs and etc etc.

indeed chat needs some moderating so it will not go wild but main issue in my eyes is the way of punishing players.

to specify more, banning player for writing something unwanted according CoC is little bit overdoing it.

lets say we have player who does not behave in chat. he insults, flames others and so on.
there is already simple and effective way to solve this - mute.
- main issue comes from chat, right ? so we prevent him from chatting, simple.
- he still plays, he still pays, game still active, business still running.
- banning someone who exploits/cheats/hacks is acceptable but just for breaking chat rules ?
- as i said above, problem comes from someone typing something unwanted in chat, so why to prevent him from playing ? just mute is less painful and effective way in my opinion.
- almost everyone nowadays use discord to communicate anyway.
- if someone is rude to gm/cm, mute is more than enough to solve problem and give player time to cooldown.
- not even talking about scenarios when if someone types something bad or non english word because of well known chat bug and it happens his 5th or 6th warning or i dunno on which warning banning starts.
so dude is active, dude is paying (supporting game in other words) but he cant play because of technical mistake which was not even his fault to start with.
he gets ban and he cant play for month. all the boosters and stuff he bought is wasted - great way to drive active and payer people away.
but if there was just mute as punishment, not so much problem because as i said above, almost everyone use discord or other communication platforms nowadays.

so just dont ban people because of breaking chat rules and everyone happy in my opinion.

Yes this makes sense, a longer mute rather then a ban would be more acceptable. We will also bring this up with everyone else.
Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[-Decimator-]

The thing I saw the last few days on Askone make it clear that starting GMs simply have to much power to mute/ban players without looking if its really needed. That some players punishment got reverted even made this clearer.
I rather see that a mute/ban is not be made by a single GM but by a decision of a team, this also removes the thoughts of 'oh this gm hates me and just punish me harder' as more GMs decide over it, and perhaps the discussion GMs themself get with this made the overall CoC and decisions stronger/better.

Also I can agree in the protection of players who reported someone else but I also find it fair that punished players can get proof of what they wrote. This does not have to be the whole screenshot, but the portion of the chat should sufice.

At last i also think the whole warning and punishment should get changed. For example someone made a small lang mistake in public chat but in total this is his/hers 5th warning, he/she get a whole month of ban for such small thing. Think its better to have different warning system for each CoC rule. So chat related stuff is more mute based, and cheating etc. is more based on getting jails/bans.