Moderation needs revamping before it gets too late.

[AldiFilopati]

Hello everyone, especially Developers!



I have been an Askone pilot for around 8 years and I still play today. So realistically speaking, I know how this server and game has developed for a long time. I have played plenty of other online games where chatting is a major point in it, from being able to expand tactics from typing to fully chat-based games. From everything I have experienced, this game has the worst chat moderation possible.

I do not want to offend anyone in particular from the Game Master team or the Developer side. All I want to express is that there is so much commotion happening between the moderation side and the player base that it is making people leave the game because of some very stupid non-reasonable sanctions. So with that said, I’d like to point some problems that I have noticed.



GM team:

You see, Game Masters are volunteers for trying to keep the chat civil and give us some extra fun in the game (e.g. Invasions, Red Sundays etc.). While this looks good on paper, they have too much freedom.

Firstly, from what I have seen, most of the complains from the players never reach the ears of Developers, meaning that most of the forum and support site threads are firstly checked by Game Masters, and then either secondly or never by Developers. This creates biased responses to players and even deleting or closing threads that need escalation without the devs ever noticing. This would mean that a player could get a Mute/Jail/Ban without much reasoning because their word of proof would never get justice.

Secondly, I do not know what special rules GMs have, but from all the sanctions I’ve seen, they go like this: “GM opens a private chat with certain player. They tell the player u did this wrong. Then they decide what punishment they want to give you. Ok but where is the proof? - the player may ask. The answer always seems to be to send a ticket so the GM team (again) can probably tell you or not proof for your punishment.” This seems like a very bad procedure in my opinion. Let’s say that GM x mutes you for 1 month unfairly. You ask for explanation on the ticket site. GM x is again in moderation of said ticket. Now it is too easy, he can just write something in his favor and not escalate the ticket to reach devs. Sounds stupid right? Seems like it happens. L

In-game Chat:

Great, we now have a spam filer. But oh wait, CoC always had punishments for players that flood the chat with nonsense. Great, now we don’t have to punish people that spam the chat so no more punishments. Why is it still written on the CoC? And why the same has not happened with the rest of chat punishments? A profanity filter is not that hard to implement, it is a thing on many many games.

Chat changing bug has been a thing since I started the game. For taking that long to fix, I understand it is not something simple. But you know, most of chat rules only function on the Global Chat. So punishing a player that gets this bug because he was trying to talk in his own language with a friend in private chat is way too dumb. For this thing , I will elaborate below on the CoC section.

Code of Conduct:

When it came out in 2015, great, we had new rules, everyone was reading it, everyone knew what to follow so they can play the game without complains. Forward few years later and it is a mess. I write certain thing on global chat, GM messages me that I am going to get muted for certain thing. I say I read the CoC and that certain thing was permitted for use. I proceed to check CoC to verify myself and what do I see? CoC has been edited. Last edit x day of y month of z year. What did they change? Players do not know. When did they change certain thing? Players do not know.

Seriously, if you ever check the news of your country, whenever a law of your constitution changes, that change is going to be all over the news for at least 1 day. On PG I have never seen this happen besides the initial release of the CoC. Why would this happen? We get news for every update but we don’t for the most important thing that keeps the game civil. Just why? This doesn’t cost you anything. It only makes the players be more responsible when they play the game.

Another thing that concerns me is related to the changes. I am going to take only 1 example of this from.

Please note the languages for each server to be spoken in public chat:



Askone: English

Korell: German

Trantor: French

Aurora: Spanish/Castillian

Kalgan: International – All languages

Solaria: English

Gaia: Spanish/Castillian

Aeria: International – All Langages



Small Colloquial phrases in English are permitted where this is normal in chat.

“Small Colloquial phrases in English are permitted where this is normal in chat.”

As of 14th November 2021, this is what was written on Code of Conduct. If it changes, I have this proof and I will be taking a snapshot of Code of Conduct in case this post gets taken down.

I did not print the old CoC because I never knew that there were going to be silent changes to it. But from my word I can say that this sentence did not say English in it. It used to mean small colloquial phrases in ANY language. For this exact reason, I have no idea how many people have been muted or even banned because they had no idea that such a small change had happened on the CoC. Why even? I see absolutely no harm in saying “good morning” in a different language. Same can be said for so many words that even English people use in a normal urban chat. Yet people keep getting punished without causing harm to anyone.

Another thing related to CoC that concerns me a lot are the punishments itself.

Let’s say we have 2 players , Player_A and Player_B. Player_A is used profanity 4 times to someone on global chat. Player_B wrote “guten morgen” 4 times on global chat. Player_A and Player_B will both follow the same procedure of sanctioning: mute , bigger mute, jail probably, then ban. Tell me how do this have the same weight of punishment. A good morning in german causes slight joy to a german guy it was addressed, meanwhile some profanity makes the other guy feel bad and probably use profanity himself. Do not tell me this is not how it functions, I have seen many friends get banned several days for these pathetic excuses without causing harm to anyone.



I would like the mention that I love this game. I have made many friends along the way. I spend hours speaking online with them, laughing with them, met them in real life, and sadly had some witness passing away. When I take breaks I still keep in check with everyone just I know how they feel, about their life, about their friends, about Pirate Galaxy and much more. But the more Time passes, I’m getting more and more concerned as my friends leave the game day by day, until probably none of them are left.



If you read all of this thank you, and hope you take into consideration even a sentence of what I have written here.

Stay safe!

 

[Drepanon]

I see your concerns.
However, all your suggestions do reach the devs.
When you tell us to make a suggestions to the developers that is what we do.
Rather or not they want to implement your suggestion is not up to us that is up to the developers. I do not know who told you we do not pass on your ideas or complaints but we do.


When you are muted or banned by a GM, it is only the GMs job to inform you of the punishment , the basic rule you broke and to inform you of how long your punishment is.
We do not tell you exactly what you said because then we would be breaking the CoC and can also be punished , this is the reason we send you to tickets. They can tell you the exact word(s) that you have said.
We are not able to show you proof due to the Privacy Policy, if we were to show you any part of a screenshot that a pilot has sent then it could reveal their identity.

Ticket system is not ran by the GMs we have no access to the ticket system. This support system as ran by a completely different group of people. So since we do not know what happens in tickets, that is between you and whomever part of support you get when you send a ticket.

No changes has been made to the CoC apart from we removed “players are punished for account pushing”. With the recent update of requiring the correct level tech to do missions. We decided that this was no longer a necessary part of the Code of Conduct and removed it. Apart from that no other changes have been made. However we did update everyone on the Account Pushing removal, it is unfortunate you missed it but we announced it to the best of our ability.
With the forum move possibly a word was changed by I do not believe so.

As for the CoC , we plan to review and edit some of the CoC rules for more to be current player friendly, and to allow more freedom for players in chat. I do not have a date yet on when this will be done, but soon as the changes are made we will let everyone know.

As for the “chat bug”. There is no chat bug, when you use Quick Chat it sometimes automatically goes to global as that is how it’s designed. Open the chat fully to avoid this, or you could just not type anything against the CoC then if it goes to global it doesn’t matter . If you type something against the CoC in any chat it can be reported ! If a clannie or a Allie or a squad member doesn’t like what you say it can be reported still. So open chat fully when talking or just don’t say anything to get you muted and you will be ok!

I hope I was able to answer some of your concerns. If you have anymore I will look at this thread later and will answer to the best of my ability.

Thanks for expressing your concerns.

P.s.
I would also like to point out that 10 years ago you would of been jailed for killing a noob in a bigger ship. You also would of been jailed for being red on kalabesh, or even calling someone stupid. The rules have changed a lot and everyone has far more freedom then years ago. No matter what changes we make when a pilot gets punished they will claim unfairness and the CoC needs to be changed . It has always been this way it’s this way in other games, it’s this way in real life.

nothing we do will make a difference , someone will always have a problem, rather it’s with the CoC the game updates or the GM Team, there will always be a problem.
So bare in mind once we make the changes there will be another person just like you still claiming everything is corrupt and unfair and the CoC needs to be changed.
No game moderation system is perfect nor will it ever be, we could include a bot that auto punishes, then you will for sure be punished for no reason, I’ve played in games with these and they are not fun. Look at the game New World, when it releases people were randomly getting banned simply because of the fact they were reported multiple times, also a failed system! GMs are the best way to go but you must also remember GMs are humans! Humans are far from perfect so there will always be mistakes , and those will be addressed when they happen.

 

[ClockWire]

Hello

I have reopened the thread for replies

Selethen you have only focused on one point on the full post. We are trying to get things changed.
The post was locked for a specific reason as Cm drepanon was not able to reply fully.
If the thread does get out of hand it will be locked and moved to a section you cannot see!

please keep the replies Civil and we will respond to each individual post separately

 

[dragonarh]

When you are muted or banned by a GM, it is only the GMs job to inform you of the punishment , the basic rule you broke and to inform you of how long your punishment is.
We do not tell you exactly what you said because then we would be breaking the CoC and can also be punished , this is the reason we send you to tickets. They can tell you the exact word(s) that you have said.
We are not able to show you proof due to the Privacy Policy, if we were to show you any part of a screenshot that a pilot has sent then it could reveal their identity.

As aldi covered the topic well there's not much I could add, although to quote this from above i'd say that aldi quite well explained that it is the CoC that is inconveniently made and perhaps needs changing, not the way its being used. That would mean that the privacy policy itself could be improved.

 

[ClockWire]

dragonarhw we have put a request into the devs asking for changes to the code of conduct. Untill the code of conduct is changed the game masters will carry on enforcing the rules that are in place.
We understand pilots make mistakes and each pilots case is looked at and reviewed by all the cms and the devs.

 

[Vishnu]

Mr. CM you did not answer the most important complaint of Aldi's post which is about the insane punishments for using basic words in different language in global. It is understandable if the pilot is a repeated offender and writes whole sentences in another language. But that is entirely not the case, players are getting banned for usage of words like ola, baka, or greetings in general. The players are getting 1 month bans for just a single word, could you explain?

 

[Verdene]

The players are getting 1 month bans for just a single word, could you explain?

Game Master Team issues low sanctions for the players when they are not severe and repeated over the time. If the player is simultaneously violating the rules, he should understand that the higher sanction is being issued. But as CM Clockwire said:

We understand pilots make mistakes and each pilots case is looked at and reviewed by all the cms and the devs.

 

[dragonarh]

Might as well add that CoC as it stands, maybe outdated and could be improved on, never the less is a great idea in its base. It's goal is to provide the most friendly experience possible to the players of the game and it considers many things most games don't which is actually pretty amazing. Although I've seen many times that GMs try to stick to the rules so strictly that they forget why the rules they are following are even there, and why the CoC exists as it is. Punishing people shouldn't be seen as some kind of a game, but rather a way to improve the experience of players, and make sure nobody tries the opposite. This is but a suggestion on how relations between moderators and players can be made better, and in no way should anyone take it as an offence..

 

[Vishnu]

Game Master Team issues low sanctions for the players when they are not severe and repeated over the time. If the player is simultaneously violating the rules, he should understand that the higher sanction is being issued.

This is why the CoC need updating. Punishments should be given based on the severity of the violation at hand, not based on how many previous ones you have.

 

[ClockWire]

Mr. CM you did not answer the most important complaint of Aldi's post which is about the insane punishments for using basic words in different language in global. It is understandable if the pilot is a repeated offender and writes whole sentences in another language. But that is entirely not the case, players are getting banned for usage of words like ola, baka, or greetings in general. The players are getting 1 month bans for just a single word, could you explain?

Baka is an insult no matter what was you look at it. - Baka = Stupid, Fool, Moron, etc Which is against the CoC we have started allowing ola, salute, guten morgan even some holiday phases as these are not offensive but baka will not be allowed no matter what way you look at it. You talk about pilots being banned you think the warning system resets ? how do you know if these pilots are not repeat offenders? all im saying if you get banned we have a support system that will look at each indvidual person case!

we have also looked a few recent cases over the weekend and reduced or taken away their sanction. i would like to add a note saying that if you can speak to support in a respectful mannar they will be more lenint if you end up spouting profantiy the devs and the Cm's are more likly to dismiss your case and you will keep the sanction.

 

[selethen]

I will start off by saying I feel that Aldi made some excellent points, all of which I pretty much agree with. I will address the response per part, to ensure that I don't miss out on something.

Your first comment about the GM merely informing you of the punishment is confusing: you say the GM is the one doing the mute/ban, but then imply that he's merely informing the player of the punishment, as if some other group judged it. Please explain this further; are gms the judges, or are they only informing players?

The ticket system not being ran, or at least not being accessible to GMs is not something I as a player can confirm or deny, but it goes against everything me and many other players have experienced over the years. Unfortunately I have no proof of this so I can't make any hard claims on it.

No changes being made to the CoC seems inconsistent with the fact that the forum post has been edited literally today; and while you can claim these may have only been small changes today, multiple people remember rules being there in the past that now aren't anymore, or rules being edited without notice.

Reviewing CoC is desperately needed, though I think the execution and moderation of the CoC is a much bigger issue; after all, the CoC states 'The rules outlined in this document may not contain every possible form of misuse of our services. We reserve the right to take action and penalize what we perceive as abusive behavior without limiting us to the examples given in this document. ', so they are very, very far from a binding set that everything can be blamed on.
CoC in its current state essentially gives Gms the power to ban people whenever they see fit. If they choose not to do so, that's great, but remove this line from the CoC then.

Chat bug existing or not, I mean, if you say it's intentional that chat randomly switches to global, fine, but that's some really sketchy game design right there.

The message added in the 'Ps' to me seems like playing the victim, and claiming that it could have been worse is no excuse for not making it better. We as players understand that Gms are humans too, and mistakes can happen. If we thought these were innocent mistakes, we wouldn't be having this conversation.


If possible, I would like to see a comment from one of the devs/official splitscreen staff in this thread as a sign that they are indeed being made aware of the issues being discussed, and to get their perspective on things.

Finally, I understand that this message and some of the ones above it may seem like myself and some others are attacking the GM team; this isn't the intention, we are trying to make things better for all involved because we believe that the current moderation structure in this game is fundamentally flawed.

 

[Vishnu]

The message added in the 'Ps' to me seems like playing the victim, and claiming that it could have been worse is no excuse for not making it better. We as players understand that Gms are humans too, and mistakes can happen. If we thought these were innocent mistakes, we wouldn't be having this conversation.


If possible, I would like to see a comment from one of the devs/official splitscreen staff in this thread as a sign that they are indeed being made aware of the issues being discussed, and to get their perspective on things.

THIS.

 

[moddoo]

i know i said baka many times but for me it wasnt insult at all
uncle google knows that it isnt insult ..

 

[ClockWire]

The CoC was edit today to fix a typo someone pointed out but the general CoC has not been fully updated the rules still remain the same till the devs change these. Once the devs make changes they will be announced on galaxy news.

We have had a meeting with the one of the devs and brought up a lot of issues you as pilots are having with the CoC and they will be having a meeting them selfs to discuess these issues. these is a thing in the CoC that does state that we can change the CoC to suit our needs as some CoC violations can have loopholes

Maybe instead of using the quick chat feature maybe just maybe you could open the chat up fully to just double check which chat room you are in?

 

[Drepanon]

"Dear and lovable Drepanon. I haven't played this game much, and in this not so long time i saw enough, i saw that some GM's treat players like theyre better than them, just because of little power they have for being a GM
True there are GM's who are just amazing with community and fun to interact with. It is only natural as they are also the same people who play the game and they have people they like and dislike as player, and it is in human nature to have that like/dislike to impact their judgement when in role of GM. Besides examples are out there, just to give a random one- i see people speak up about being podded by GM when they're having a duel with someone, GM's taking sides on punishing people or not when they should be impartial AND do not deny it we all know it is a thing. You are losing players and you will continue to do so, and its a shame because the game as old as it is still feels fun to play.It needs good rules to keep actual toxic people at check, but the state it is now its just sad. Game doesnt need biased GM's, and doesn't need You.

That is your opinion , GMs do not favor others. If there is then you need to report it, do not post on a thread if you're not going to help us then do not comlain. As you said you do not play, and that is absolutely fine with me. Thank you for your feedback

 

[Hecatte]

i know i said baka many times but for me it wasnt insult at all
uncle google knows that it isnt insult ..View attachment 50284

 

[Drepanon]

i know i said baka many times but for me it wasnt insult at all
uncle google knows that it isnt insult ..View attachment 50284

That sayd it means "crazy" "Foolish" and "stupid" those are all insulting words against the CoC. I understand the meaning behind it and it is technically harmless. But if a pilot reports abuse and says they're offended then we are required to act.

 

[Drepanon]

That sayd it means "crazy" "Foolish" and "stupid" those are all insulting words against the CoC. I understand the meaning behind it and it is technically harmless. But if a pilot reports abuse and says they're offended then we are required to act.

This is why we are planning to evolve the Coc so issues like this so that it doesn't happen.

 

[selethen]

The CoC was edit today to fix a typo someone pointed out but the general CoC has not been fully updated the rules still remain the same till the devs change these. Once the devs make changes they will be announced on galaxy news.

We have had a meeting with the one of the devs and brought up a lot of issues you as pilots are having with the CoC and they will be having a meeting them selfs to discuess these issues. these is a thing in the CoC that does state that we can change the CoC to suit our needs as some CoC violations can have loopholes

Maybe instead of using the quick chat feature maybe just maybe you could open the chat up fully to just double check which chat room you are in?

" The CoC was edit today to fix a typo someone pointed out but the general CoC has not been fully updated the rules still remain the same till the devs change these. Once the devs make changes they will be announced on galaxy news. "
This does not address the point I made.

"We have had a meeting with the one of the devs and brought up a lot of issues you as pilots are having with the CoC and they will be having a meeting them selfs to discuess these issues. these is a thing in the CoC that does state that we can change the CoC to suit our needs as some CoC violations can have loopholes"
There's a difference between the right to change CoC when needed, and the right to ban people without reason.

"Maybe instead of using the quick chat feature maybe just maybe you could open the chat up fully to just double check which chat room you are in?"
I would prefer if you refrain from passive-aggressive statements like these, I don't feel like they contribute much substance to the discussion.

 

[Drepanon]

I will start off by saying I feel that Aldi made some excellent points, all of which I pretty much agree with. I will address the response per part, to ensure that I don't miss out on something.

Your first comment about the GM merely informing you of the punishment is confusing: you say the GM is the one doing the mute/ban, but then imply that he's merely informing the player of the punishment, as if some other group judged it. Please explain this further; are gms the judges, or are they only informing players?

The ticket system not being ran, or at least not being accessible to GMs is not something I as a player can confirm or deny, but it goes against everything me and many other players have experienced over the years. Unfortunately I have no proof of this so I can't make any hard claims on it.

No changes being made to the CoC seems inconsistent with the fact that the forum post has been edited literally today; and while you can claim these may have only been small changes today, multiple people remember rules being there in the past that now aren't anymore, or rules being edited without notice.

Reviewing CoC is desperately needed, though I think the execution and moderation of the CoC is a much bigger issue; after all, the CoC states 'The rules outlined in this document may not contain every possible form of misuse of our services. We reserve the right to take action and penalize what we perceive as abusive behavior without limiting us to the examples given in this document. ', so they are very, very far from a binding set that everything can be blamed on.
CoC in its current state essentially gives Gms the power to ban people whenever they see fit. If they choose not to do so, that's great, but remove this line from the CoC then.

Chat bug existing or not, I mean, if you say it's intentional that chat randomly switches to global, fine, but that's some really sketchy game design right there.

The message added in the 'Ps' to me seems like playing the victim, and claiming that it could have been worse is no excuse for not making it better. We as players understand that Gms are humans too, and mistakes can happen. If we thought these were innocent mistakes, we wouldn't be having this conversation.


If possible, I would like to see a comment from one of the devs/official splitscreen staff in this thread as a sign that they are indeed being made aware of the issues being discussed, and to get their perspective on things.

Finally, I understand that this message and some of the ones above it may seem like myself and some others are attacking the GM team; this isn't the intention, we are trying to make things better for all involved because we believe that the current moderation structure in this game is fundamentally flawed.

GMs are only there to inform not judge. Editting the Coc is not a easy thing to do, the CoC goes for all languages and teams so it takes approval alot of time and effort.
As for playing the victim no,. this is merely a fact, the fact is we can't make everyone happy this is not a lie. We will try to please everyone, but that is next to impossible to do.
We are replying to you guys because we want to help and get these situations sorted.