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Moderation needs revamping before it gets too late.

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Drepanon

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The thing I saw the last few days on Askone make it clear that starting GMs simply have to much power to mute/ban players without looking if its really needed. That some players punishment got reverted even made this clearer.
I rather see that a mute/ban is not be made by a single GM but by a decision of a team, this also removes the thoughts of 'oh this gm hates me and just punish me harder' as more GMs decide over it, and perhaps the discussion GMs themself get with this made the overall CoC and decisions stronger/better.

Also I can agree in the protection of players who reported someone else but I also find it fair that punished players can get proof of what they wrote. This does not have to be the whole screenshot, but the portion of the chat should sufice.

At last i also think the whole warning and punishment should get changed. For example someone made a small lang mistake in public chat but in total this is his/hers 5th warning, he/she get a whole month of ban for such small thing. Think its better to have different warning system for each CoC rule. So chat related stuff is more mute based, and cheating etc. is more based on getting jails/bans.
You are wrong, they do not decide the punishment at all. There is a punishment structure we go by, the only reason the last few pilots got lesser punishments was because of the baka situation this was a rare instance. Also no we cannot show you the "portion of the chat". This is a GDPR issue, we cannot show you any part of it this is LAW not a PG rule. Unless you want to pay a big fine then we cannot do that. There has been many suggestions of chat already , but as i said many times before this is out of our control we will suggest the change and push for it, but that is as much as we can do
 

Drepanon

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You guys need to understand we don't show you the actual screenshot violation because we dont want to. This is a GDPR problem, we by law cannot show you any of it. This is not a SplitScreens rule this is a rule for all games in all countries. You can google the GDPR for yourself.
Support can repeat to you what exactly you said but that is all they can do. GMs cant repeat it at all because then we would be breaking the CoC.
 
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katana88

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Drep, the idea i wrote is comfortable for both, devs and players so make sure they read this please :)

No Developer would want its players away especially if they support and keep game running.

Muting chat-rule breakers keeps global clean, gives slap to those who break rules and is not as painful as ban.

if u cause problems with your typing, we stop you from typing - problem solved.
 

Drepanon

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Drep, the idea i wrote is comfortable for both, devs and players so make sure they read this please :)

No Developer would want its players away especially if they support and keep game running.

Muting chat-rule breakers keeps global clean, gives slap to those who break rules and is not as painful as ban.

if u cause problems with your typing, we stop you from typing - problem solved.
I will 100% , we are working to adjust the CoC and punishment structure. So that way players do not think they're being abused, everyone follows the punishment structure. If you say "baka" (only for example). Small problem with it yes , but if your next sanction is a 30 day bann then that is what you get. GMs do not get to decide what punishment you get, it goes in order. Which is a common misconception of GM Abuse. So this is what we want to fix.
 

Risk

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Also if you want to change the structure how would you purpose we do it?
I'd suggest that instead of having punishments correlating strictly to the number of prior offences committed, you categorize the offence based off of severity so the punishment fits better. So, for a chat related offence, the punishment should also be chat related. I don't think players should ever be account banned as a sanction for a chat infringement. For example, players who speak in banned languages or use profanity in global should be verbally warned or muted for 1 or 2 days. If they continue to make the same offences and aren't learning, the duration of mutes should increase, but an account ban should be off limits for chat offences.

If players are reported for swearing in clan chat by another clan member, I think that should also be taken into special consideration. Clan chat is expected to be more private than global chat, as what you say there isn't accessible to everyone on the server. Muting people for chat related offences exclusively made in clan chat would seem unwarranted, as the person in clan who is 'offended' could easily leave that clan if they aren't comfortable there and join another, or just raise that issue to the clan to get it addressed. But let's be honest, in all likelihood, this type of clan chat reporter is the type to use reports as weapons. Giving clan chat reports a special consideration would be a way to lessen the impact of that type of unproductive player. In this situation, I think a verbal warning from a GM would be enough. I don't think people should be globally muted for something they say in clan chat.

Players who are actually abusive/harassing (derogatory slurs, racism, sexism, etc.) towards other players in global chat should be globally muted for a longer duration than they would be for a lesser chat offence. Account bans should be strictly reserved for serious game offences, such as using bots or hacking, and this should have its own separate set of tiers of ban durations based on the type of game offence committed.

It's also worth noting that every player has an in-game mute function, and its use should be encouraged more. In this regard, perhaps the report structure can be changed so that instead of globally muting players for less serious things like 'baka', the GMs are instead recommended to open a private message with the reporter and suggest muting the players they feel offended by.

These are just some suggestions and the details could be ironed out later, but they would go a long way to making the chat more active and productive, and less weaponized.
 

Drepanon

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Also the issue with what was previously suggest. Instead of following the punishment structure and the teamd decides how severe something someone says is and we determine the punishment that way, most would get different punishments, some worse then others. Then the accusation of favortism would arise, this is why that system wouldn't work. There has to been some sort of structure , not this one, but a structure.
 
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Drepanon

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I'd suggest that instead of having punishments correlating strictly to the number of prior offences committed, you categorize the offence based off of severity so the punishment fits better. So, for a chat related offence, the punishment should also be chat related. I don't think players should ever be account banned as a sanction for a chat infringement. For example, players who speak in banned languages or use profanity in global should be verbally warned or muted for 1 or 2 days. If they continue to make the same offences and aren't learning, the duration of mutes should increase, but an account ban should be off limits for chat offences.

If players are reported for swearing in clan chat by another clan member, I think that should also be taken into special consideration. Clan chat is expected to be more private than global chat, as what you say there isn't accessible to everyone on the server. Muting people for chat related offences exclusively made in clan chat would seem unwarranted, as the person in clan who is 'offended' could easily leave that clan if they aren't comfortable there and join another, or just raise that issue to the clan to get it addressed. But let's be honest, in all likelihood, this type of clan chat reporter is the type to use reports as weapons. Giving clan chat reports a special consideration would be a way to lessen the impact of that type of unproductive player. In this situation, I think a verbal warning from a GM would be enough. I don't think people should be globally muted for something they say in clan chat.

Players who are actually abusive/harassing (derogatory slurs, racism, sexism, etc.) towards other players in global chat should be globally muted for a longer duration than they would be for a lesser chat offence. Account bans should be strictly reserved for serious game offences, such as using bots or hacking, and this should have its own separate set of tiers of ban durations based on the type of game offence committed.

It's also worth noting that every player has an in-game mute function, and its use should be encouraged more. In this regard, perhaps the report structure can be changed so that instead of globally muting players for less serious things like 'baka', the GMs are instead recommended to open a private message with the reporter and suggest muting the players they feel offended by.

These are just some suggestions and the details could be ironed out later, but they would go a long way to making the chat more active and productive, and less weaponized.
Yes we could leave it up to the leaders of the clan to handle, but if they fail to handle it then it would still fall on us. So with that it gets more complicated, so there for sure has to be a structure, muting people based on how severe we think it is would be far to messy and everywhere. I agree chat offenses should be less then a cheat/account share/ account share. We can work on that, but there still needs to be some sort of structure.

"Baka" comes under the CoC , which we are going to work on rewording to be more lean with these types of situations. Going on with that saying "Hi" in another language or "Bye" we also want to allow as long as its not a full conversation.
 

Drepanon

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Yes we could leave it up to the leaders of the clan to handle, but if they fail to handle it then it would still fall on us. So with that it gets more complicated, so there for sure has to be a structure, muting people based on how severe we think it is would be far to messy and everywhere. I agree chat offenses should be less then a cheat/account share/ account share. We can work on that, but there still needs to be some sort of structure.

"Baka" comes under the CoC , which we are going to work on rewording to be more lean with these types of situations. Going on with that saying "Hi" in another language or "Bye" we also want to allow as long as its not a full conversation.
Saying this , we will work on Clan/Squad/Alliance chats. We will try to implement that those situation be handled by the Leaders (as long as it doesn't get to out of hand).
2. We will reword the CoC so that things such as "baka" or saying hi and bye in different languages be allowed.
3. Less aggressive punishments for chat violations (example: Leave banns to cheating/Account Sharing/ etc)
4. Come up with a better structure for both instances that are less aggressive

Is everyone ok with these ideas? I will take more suggestions


REMINDER : We do not have much control over these situations , we will bring them up and attempt to implement them. Adjusting the CoC and the punishment structure is not a easy task as it goes for all teams and all languages so its a long process. That is if it gets approved. So do not expect this to happen over night!
 
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Shadowhunter007

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Saying this , we will work on Clan/Squad/Alliance chats. We will try to implement that those situation be handled by the Leaders (as long as it doesn't get to out of hand).
2. We will reword the CoC so that things such as "baka" or saying hi and bye in different languages be allowed.
3. Less aggressive punishments for chat violations (example: Leave banns to cheating/Account Sharing/ etc)
4. Come up with a better structure for both instances that are less aggressive

Is everyone ok with these ideas? I will take more suggestions
we have to start somewhere, this might be a good beginning.
 

Serapin

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Also the issue with what was previously suggest. Instead of following the punishment structure and the teamd decides how severe something someone says is and we determine the punishment that way, most would get different punishments, some worse then others. Then the accusation of favortism would arise, this is why that system wouldn't work. There has to been some sort of structure , not this one, but a structure.
That is so not true. Punishment severity should always equal how much someone done bad plus how many times they have done this before. If there is such situation where unhappy person accuses you of favourism its just them being mad for getting punished in accordance to how they behaved - entirely their fault and problem, and i say that as person who was banned for being a bad quack before.
 

Drepanon

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That is so not true. Punishment severity should always equal how much someone done bad plus how many times they have done this before. If there is such situation where unhappy person accuses you of favourism its just them being mad for getting punished in accordance to how they behaved - entirely their fault and problem, and i say that as person who was banned for being a bad quack before.
Without a structure there would still be random, there has to be a structure. Random punishments is a mess and unorganized. Letting someone decide a punishment based on severity would be inconsistent. If its something simple and harmless we will give verbal warnings unless it is constantly repeated after the verbal warning. That is as far as it will go, severity based structure is not in the cards.

Also the idea is to remove bans period from chat violations, there will be no bans only chat mutes so they can still play

Also removing the structure all together and only going based on severity it way to much of a sudden change, trying to apply that we will be instantly rejected.

Saying that i do appreciate your feedback, and maybe 1 day we can get as far as removing the structure.
 

Vesperion

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Greetings all.

Ok first thing to point out and ill show you all, the exact thing that was changed on the Code Of Conduct today, it was no real important change but in fact to correct a typo which was pointed out to us today.
Ok even when i´m pretty late to the party i have (thanks to Discord) a bit of an overview what all of this has triggered but will not go into more details of it.

HOWEVER the CoC has experienced some changes next to "just typos".

I and other Pilots clearly remember that at some point the CoC did not allow us to talk about non SSG games and seem to have been removed at some point (eventually in October 2021 this year as this was the previous edited time).

From my pov even when just a minor change is made in the CoC it should be made puplic so that everyone can/will be informed about it. Sure not every Pilot is looking in the forum or at all but at least the ones who do can then carry such updates (if they are important for them) into the game.

Until the removal of this rule it was always risky to talk about any other games in Global + Pilots still continued to "warn others about this rule" even when it may not have been active anymore. So in this point i need to disagree that the CoC "only was changed recently for a typo that has been discovered". Pretty sure that removing a complete rule is not just "a typo" :unsure: .

when the code of conduct is updated it will be on the forum and an announcement in game in galaxy news that the code of conduct has been changed.
Tbh i can not remember at all that at any point any form of announcement was made when something at the CoC has changed. Even now i can not see anywhere an "Important" announcement in the forum that states "There where changes in the CoC please check those changes".

As for the “chat bug”. There is no chat bug, when you use Quick Chat it sometimes automatically goes to global as that is how it’s designed.
Sorry to rant here but i know not any other Online game that "sometimes goes automatically back to the global chat". Why should a game decide to rndmly go back to the global chat when i clearly chated in Clan/Ally/Squad the whole time? This makes absolutely no sense.

Open the chat fully to avoid this, or you could just not type anything against the CoC then if it goes to global it doesn’t matter .
Then please give the devs the info that we want a button to "disable Chat sound" cus the only reason i have the chatbox never open is that for every small bit of text it gives this "tick sound" that can be annoying if chat goes wild. Without this option i rather stay to the "normal chat"... hust saying.
 

Aluneth

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I and other Pilots clearly remember that at some point the CoC did not allow us to talk about non SSG games and seem to have been removed at some point (eventually in October 2021 this year as this was the previous edited time).

From my pov even when just a minor change is made in the CoC it should be made puplic so that everyone can/will be informed about it. Sure not every Pilot is looking in the forum or at all but at least the ones who do can then carry such updates (if they are important for them) into the game.

Until the removal of this rule it was always risky to talk about any other games in Global + Pilots still continued to "warn others about this rule" even when it may not have been active anymore. So in this point i need to disagree that the CoC "only was changed recently for a typo that has been discovered". Pretty sure that removing a complete rule is not just "a typo" :unsure: .
I recommend you take another look at the CoC, you seem to have been misled into believing that rule was removed.
1636924560293.png
 

Drepanon

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As Aluneth has posted it is clearly still there.
Tbh i can not remember at all that at any point any form of announcement was made when something at the CoC has changed. Even now i can not see anywhere an "Important" announcement in the forum that states "There where changes in the CoC please check those changes".
The reason you dont see updates on it being edited is because it has not been edited lol.
If you see that its been updated by a moderator it is usually for typos.
As you can see everything is exactly the same.

Sorry to rant here but i know not any other Online game that "sometimes goes automatically back to the global chat". Why should a game decide to rndmly go back to the global chat when i clearly chated in Clan/Ally/Squad the whole time? This makes absolutely no sense.
It does make sense, because quick chat is simply for that quick chat, if you are in a conversation then you should open the chat fully, that's what we do. It is also possible that while typing if you hit WASD while it quick chat or up and down arrow you could accidently switch chats.
Then please give the devs the info that we want a button to "disable Chat sound" cus the only reason i have the chatbox never open is that for every small bit of text it gives this "tick sound" that can be annoying if chat goes wild. Without this option i rather stay to the "normal chat"... hust saying.
This is off topic, this is not about chat bugs or annoying sounds, lets stick to the subject of the CoC and punishment structure.
 

Drepanon

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Saying that, i believe we have enough feedback and can take it to the others. So we will temporarily lock this thread until we are able to come to you with a update.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.
 
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