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Feedback Thread · Items Overhaul Public Test

Jackal

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daniel48090
You saw the point - Class ships.
So far i see changes for items,what mostly is great ^^
But there are no class changes.
Now problem is that mostly great ships is rdx.
No one want buy tank,storm,engie,defender or shock.Even small % players play neons.
If someone make them its mostly collection or nostalgia not fly every day like rdx.
No my question is - why game have more than 100 ships if only 5 maybe 10 from them players want have or use it.
Who need old parsec dominator if exist better rdx blackgranite.
Who need old constructor if there are at least 2 better rdx engie and so on ...
Some people says - new players who join have only option buy parsec for now - but they dont do it XD
Players already says them - wait for rdx event,xmas or sale and get much better ships,dont wast cryo for pasrecs.

So i really love see new changes on items,they really great but see old parsec as worth buy and play,as a great ships,will be also Awesome.
There are 6 old ship classes (not counting the new ones), 3 of them are being underutilized at the moment: Storm, Tank and Shock.
With these new changes the Shock and Tank are being heavily buffed and they can work in PvP and PvE without any problems (now the Tank class will be able to properly tank in missions or against heavier enemies, bringing some utility).
Storm is better now (3 of its 4 components were buffed), but there is much more competition in the DPS role, so it will be very difficult to see a lot of Parsecs only. Hunter, Obsidian, VQ, Para, Hornfels, BO and Harpy are different DPS ships and they are better for different scenarios, but I don't think the Storm class is useless in all situations.
 

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daniel48090
You saw the point - Class ships.
So far i see changes for items,what mostly is great ^^
But there are no class changes.
Now problem is that mostly great ships is rdx.
No one want buy tank,storm,engie,defender or shock.Even small % players play neons.
If someone make them its mostly collection or nostalgia not fly every day like rdx.
No my question is - why game have more than 100 ships if only 5 maybe 10 from them players want have or use it.
Who need old parsec dominator if exist better rdx blackgranite.
Who need old constructor if there are at least 2 better rdx engie and so on ...
Some people says - new players who join have only option buy parsec for now - but they dont do it XD
Players already says them - wait for rdx event,xmas or sale and get much better ships,dont wast cryo for pasrecs.

So i really love see new changes on items,they really great but see old parsec as worth buy and play,as a great ships,will be also Awesome.
I did browse trough all current ships and even noticed that not a single RDX ship even has a taunt if i not have totally overlooked it. So for TC the only ship that actually has a taunt in it´s config is the Bullfrog who is according to the HP ranking threat (that is not really up to date anymore) so the only alternative ship you could use for TC is the Dominator.

Sure it has the Bomb as damage and aggro item as well but aside from that as you said "why should players use the Domi with his single target item while there are other ships that perform much better?". I mean even Bullforg is a single target focused ship that only benefits from the SB as dmg item and the MT to make a quick run if needed.

So it still begs the question why from all items the Taunt seems to have seen a change that is not significant enough to give the ships who have it a reason to be used again. Even the freaking Wolfhound has received a massive upgrade with the Aggro Beacon change what makes gives it even more survivability in squad as it receives now heal from it´s own RT; Allies Cover and now even the Beacon what can make it nearly immortal at this point if not shot as target number 1.

So i can see players who may now consider to use Wolfhound in Squads more with the changes.
 

NinjaFlow

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About the Quantum Leap, for me is better to jump exactly at the last place clicked if there is range, and not go straight at the maximum range limit, if its possible to use the QL that way.

About the
Stuns and Stuns Domes, when the owner of the stun dies their stuns ends immediately
 

LilSleezy

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just a little feedback. maybe the stun charge and stun dome could temporarily disable or reduce the strenght effect of the magnet trap ? what do you think? so instead of getting force to destroy it or teleport away with quantum leap a shock ship can just use his shock items to get out of it faster
 

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What's that?
Thanks everyone tha joined the PTR tests and for the feedback given from you. We we go back into closed ptr mode and tweak the update with the insigts we received during testing.
So far so good, now we got another good reason to get the "old" ships in a fresh way. Can we expect this update after summer sale?
 

Vesperion

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So far so good, now we got another good reason to get the "old" ships in a fresh way. Can we expect this update after summer sale?
I would rather ask if there will be another PTR round after the feedback was taken into mind for the items that where mentioned to maybe need some more slight adjustments. I think in regards of the ships there isn´t really that much room to work with aside from adjusting HP; Speed and Def cus the items are preset anyways.
 

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An interesting thought I had was giving rapid items 'better' aoe logic. I don't think this is a good idea but it is interesting.

So what is orbital strike's aoe logic? I assume it is still 100% damage for 3 targets and then decreases to minimum of 0% damage.
 

KingSub

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What's that?
I would rather ask if there will be another PTR round after the feedback was taken into mind for the items that where mentioned to maybe need some more slight adjustments. I think in regards of the ships there isn´t really that much room to work with aside from adjusting HP; Speed and Def cus the items are preset anyways.
Hmm sure, but we don't need another HP & Speed adjustment. This messes up the whole system of the respective ships just because e.g. Taunt is stronger and finally more effective, it doesn't mean that the Dominator should have 10% less armor.

I think that would be a very bad way to go, we already had this experience back then when the Imperator Parsec was reduced in HP with every Sirius update back then.

The goal is to make the old AnIn ships more valuable. If the AnIn ships now get 5-15% less HP & Speed through this item adjustment then this update makes no sense. So the RDX ships will stay on #1 again. In addition, the regular Ne0n ships also gets benefit from this update. These can then also be used well.
 

Zylo M

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Glad to see that y'all haven't forgotten about this game - and I think these changes are quite sensible. I'm looking forward to what's next.
 

Highway

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So far so good, now we got another good reason to get the "old" ships in a fresh way. Can we expect this update after summer sale?
The update is currently planned to go live on the next week. We had planned it for this week, but as we incoperated the feedback, fixes and further improvements from the last public PTR it was better to delay for testing.

I would rather ask if there will be another PTR round after the feedback was taken into mind for the items that where mentioned to maybe need some more slight adjustments. I think in regards of the ships there isn´t really that much room to work with aside from adjusting HP; Speed and Def cus the items are preset anyways.
Jup tomorrow will be another public PTR to stresstest the under the hood changes to get a solid version for live release ready. PTR Changelog will be posted soon.

So what is orbital strike's aoe logic? I assume it is still 100% damage for 3 targets and then decreases to minimum of 0% damage.
Yes that is correct. It remains like it is currently live.
 

GOTIL0N

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Jup tomorrow will be another public PTR to stresstest the under the hood changes to get a solid version for live release ready. PTR Changelog will be posted soon.
CvC cq please

1723126296348.png
 

Highway

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Steel_Blue

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I am scared of the mine change in relation to PvE in 1003908.
PTR 1003908 Changelog said:
  • Mines are no longer visible on the minimap, and also do not appear as targets on the target list.
  • Mine visuals adjustments
    • Friendly mines are easy to see.
    • Enemy mines are little more concealed than before.
I would like this to apply only to player mines, and not NPC mines. Draconis minefields especially can be very dangerous to fly through haphazardly, and the visibility reduction sounds very scary. I checked the Venar minefields and found them very difficult to see on the PTR, but I didn't check Gaz and Hive fields.
 

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I am scared of the mine change in relation to PvE in 1003908.

I would like this to apply only to player mines, and not NPC mines. Draconis minefields especially can be very dangerous to fly through haphazardly, and the visibility reduction sounds very scary. I checked the Venar minefields and found them very difficult to see on the PTR, but I didn't check Gaz and Hive fields.
I can understand the reduction of mines to be visible when they are from player cus they should give some sort of "surprise" moment during PvP/CQ times but imo the devs did go a bit overboard here. Remove from the target list? Totally understandable. Make them less visible so that you mainly see the blinking dot every x seconds? Also totally understandable...

But remove even the ability to aim at mines via the TAB-key? This is a bit to much imo cus this was the typical way how i cleared minefields from the AI units at least when i was using a ship without an LC what is still the best counter for them. So yeah i hope that it will give at least for the AI mines the old system cus otherwise it can be awfull to clear AI minefields that in compare to player minefields are mostly fully stacked.

But i must say that this is already the 3rd or so time that mines got changed cus i remember the very old version where they did home in and then exploded until it was removed for whatever reason.
 

daniel48090

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I am scared of the mine change in relation to PvE in 1003908.

I would like this to apply only to player mines, and not NPC mines. Draconis minefields especially can be very dangerous to fly through haphazardly, and the visibility reduction sounds very scary. I checked the Venar minefields and found them very difficult to see on the PTR, but I didn't check Gaz and Hive fields.
As a defender of the suggestion made, I would like to highlight that the mines, despite being less visible, still have a red light animation that makes their location visible for clicking.

An increase in difficulty can be considered on some planets, however, with the variety of how to counteract said "Mantis minefields" it is still relatively "easy" to clear those areas. (Aggro Beacons, Magnet Traps, Damage Inverters, Lightning Chains)

It does not seem to be necessary to modify the Mantis mines.
 

Jackal

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And once again, after testing some components a little bit I can safely say this is the best experience I've ever had playing this game, even as a DPS which was the least enjoyable role before, at least for me (damage components were clunky to use).

Now with this new balance patch there are not many components left behind, and there will be many more interesting combinations for new future ships.

If I had to change something it would be minor adjustments to components that have to compete with updated ones, for example:
  • Aim Computer: It could benefit from a small cooldown decrease, it would have better uptime (now its like 57% active for the ancient version, even a small increase will be very noticeable) and since aim scramblers are far better now it could be a more reliable counter.
  • Attack Charge: Maybe some cooldown reduction to increase the component uptime (now its really low at 50% for the ancient version).
These changes would make the aim computer and attack charge components more reliable and buffing other players would be a better experience. Also some ships like the Storm Class will have the aim computer and perforator total cycles matched again.

Now that the game is in such interesting state, I missed the good old days with more than one conquest per day. Also Draconis and Sirius with only one planet seems like a tragedy!

We also experience some issues:
  • Magnetic Trap visual effects missing
  • Quantum Leap range not getting affected by scope shifters
  • Quantum Leap unintended behaviour when the target is out of range
I will continue to test these things because I am not 100% sure this reports are correct.
 

darklink3

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Thanks for the quick update!
Slight nerfs to stun charge and beacon are appreciated, buffs to rocket and shield are neat and welcome too.
Thank you for the protector/shield interaction bugfix, it's great.

Materializer

I'd like to give furhter feedback on the materializer after playing with the newly megabuffed long version yesterday: It's still terrible. In theory, there's now a reason to use all three, trading strength for a lower cooldown. In practice, it doesn't work. But it is a step in the right direction.

While the cooldown difference is significant, it is imo not enough. 80s (strong) cooldown is barely enough to prevent a double resurection in a fight, but the long materializer is unable to use its much lower (45s) cooldown because of how insanely dangerous it is to use. You typically have to wait until the fight has moved a bit (~15s) so you can start resurecting discretely and safely, and that time is lost for the person you are trying to resurect. By the time you waited and resurected someone, 30s+ have passed, and the fate of said fight is pretty much sealed already. You won't be using a 2nd materializer in the same fight either way, so equipping the strong variant is better in every way.

The strong variant is also much simpler to use, since it is shorter than a damage inverter (screw this combo with 0 counterplay, honestly, it's unhealthy). Especially on sable, there's no real way to prevent it from resurecting someone.

What I'd really like to see is the amount of health given to the materialized person change depending on the strength of the mat used too. Strong materializers could use the old 25% health system where you could spawn kill the newly resurected person if the engineer recklessly resurrects someone in the middle of a fight. Normal and longs could give more health.

If this isn't possible, maybe a further slight cooldown increase on the strong variant is needed, as as decreasing the long version's uptime would ruin its identity.
Something like:
Strong : (8s mat) 80s cd -> 100s cd
Normal : (11s mat) 60s cd -> 60s cd
Long : (16s mat) 45s cd -> 30s cd
Would make using the strong and easy variant have a significant cooldown cost, and reward sucessfully pulling off a long mat with next to 0 cooldown.

Pure damage items

Since you are reworking ancient items base stats, I'd like to remind that offence only items are almost always used exclusively in their "strong" versions, never the agile ones.

For pure damage items, the only thing that matters is maximizing "how much dps does this give", and "how much burst can my ship output at once". Because the game has been balanced so that all ancient variants have the same DPS, the only thing changed by the choice of ancient variant is the burst damage, and strong is always strictly better.

This affects : Blaster, Rockets, Thermoblasts, Sniper blasters, Orbital strikes, Attack charges, sticky bombs and Long minelayers
It's even worse for the regular blaster, where the strong variant allows weaving other items during the cooldown at no dps loss, making it far superior to the other two options.

I'd like to see more in depth changes. Rapid snipers having more range, rapid blasters having a better crit rate,
strong orbital strikes taking more time to detonate, rapid bombs having 100% minimum damage... These are just ideas, but could really shake up a stale ship building meta.
At least, it'd be nice to see the damage of agile variants slightly buffed (10% would suffice) to give incentive to build differently than full strong everywhere.
 

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Most of these changes are welcome, but I'd like to say a few words about QL.

Quantum Leap as it stands in this PTR is too strong. QL Ships have total control over engagements because they can jump in and out of fights very (too) frequently. What happened during CQs was an abundance of Slates just jumping in and out as they pleased, never really risking their own ship (unless going 1v5 while stunned I guess).

While the issue came with being able to QL without target, I don't think reverting it would be a good solution, as the idea is really good.
However, for PvP balance, I would see QL's CD greatly increased (11s -> 18s), such that it becomes a meaningful decision.
Do I jump in to engage and risk being bursted during QL CD?
Or do I play safer and keep QL to get out of a bad situation?

Let me know what you think.

P.S: CC is still too big :cautious:
 

hektor.barbossa

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Why is too strong if you can stun and kill before run out.
That how should looks balance. Ship 1 able kill ship 2 and 2 able kill 3 XD
You perhaps experience problems with ql because only few people use stun ships.
If balance go well then stuns shall be enough strong to stop runners from run and defeated XD
I hope changes will finally bring all ships back to use,not only few rdx called end game.
 
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