Losing hope, give me some back please.

[Razor2278]

the best solution to all this would be to launch a test server and test ship items etc. and I just think that it would speed up certain things, bugs and corrections, and allow developers to see live how a given ship and item behaves.

 

[Vesperion]

the best solution to all this would be to launch a test server and test ship items etc. and I just think that it would speed up certain things, bugs and corrections, and allow developers to see live how a given ship and item behaves.

What can be seen relative as a PTR environment not reflects a players actuall account as such test are mostly held with the ability to basically buy anything without any effort along with the situation that players in a test enfironment may see things differently.

Best exsample imo is the entry mission of TC4 that seems a bit over the top as a single player mission by throwing the new mantis already at you and depending on the spawn may make it impossible to complete the mission. I must be fair and say i still haven´t retried the mission since i did gold some of my RDX ships when i did get the chip before the mission failed so i have no idea if any other changes were made aside from the fix they made to leave the planet after you collected the thing at the middle but this is not part of the topic as it goes to much into the offtopic section.

All in all we can say it will never be possible to satisfy every player as there will always be at least 1 player who complains about something. In case of the topic "Make the item stats based on PvE vs PvP" it gives games that gives item PvE and PvP stats so that they work differently in both modes.

However the main difference of those games is that they mostly have a separate instance that is clearly PvP only and not goes into the possible PvEvP territory and so make it surely way harder to code. In my nobish way of coding understanding i assume that coding PvE and PvP stas for items is having for each item a duplicate sheet/excel were one is with the PvE stats and the other is for the PvP stats and then change the values for PvP to "balance" them while making the game clear when what stat should count to reflect it.

At best maybe this is possible to implement to tell the game that during CQ/OTBs the PvP stats should count while during PvEvP situations i not really see how this should work as the game would have to handle 2 different stat values at the same time if you should be ambushed during a fight with the NPC units.

 

[Hecatte]

Git Gud

 

[Redthorne]

To fulfill the demands of all the players is just not possible as it comes with opposing favoring demands.

In an ideal situation you would have something that always works like rock paper scissors lizard spock, but with about 46 items and each in about 50 variations, you see where this ideal world just went out the window.

About hiring, that is not up to me and completly out of my responsability.

The scope of the work does not really scare me, if it takes that long it takes that long, but the problem is that you have to deal with diverging things and systems that have grown and eveolved for a over a decade and were done by various ppl with different goals and aimings; all while having a group of players that know this stuff and are on one side demanding improvements but actually hate you for changing stuff they like. it is a just at a point where you only can lose, you can only choose how big you want to lose.
You don't know how happy i am that i'm able to do changes in the hp of like the aggrobeacon because i had to collect all the stuff from various points.

Thank you for the answer.
The aggrobeacon HP buff is indeed very welcome, for years we've been laughing on that item for being useless, but it actually sees some use nowadays.
About players' demands, I didn't mean every single one of them of course, I had in mind some of the most recurring and unanimously agreed upon demands such as bug fixes (white items, blasters sometimes not working, performance issues after some time) or any kind of nerf to cloud (for PvP purposes).

You do not seem to grab the intent of the cloud, it shall not just punish the players in range, it shall force players to seek distance and practicly sacifice one player with this effect on it. Also I do not know which range changes at the cloud you refer to as the last changes there were done in 2022, to fix the effective range with the visible range.

About the cloud, I get that the intent is to force players to split to avoid the "punishment" of dealing reduced damage. However, on a game design perspective I think it would've been good to ensure the item feels good to use AND feels good to counter. When it had pre-TC4 range (even if it was just visual), opposing players were forced to split but could still remain in a fight and had to actively avoid the clouded player. Thus, the item provided some kind of counterplay. Right now the range is so large that it's pointless to try and split. As such, players just ignore the cloud and stay packed since that's the strongest strategy.

What I would propose (and I know it would not be easy to implement and am not really asking you to just do it right now, I'm just sharing an opinion):
Reduce the range, reduce the duration, increase the damage penalty.
For sirius variants:
Long could have a large range (like current) and long duration but very low penalty, making it a small but guaranteed nerf to the enemy team.
Strong could have a very small range and rather short duration but have an extreme penalty, making it very potent but also providing a countermeasure (spliting up).

Again that's just an idea and cloud balancing isn't the biggest priority for PG anyway, but I'd sure like to see some change in that direction at some point.

Lets also talk about the new ship the Heron, you have made a ship that takes away every weakness from the materialize, you have an inverter, shield and allies cover that heals you with insane speed so you can disengage from a fight with no chance of anyone catching you. This ship has made fights last a lot longer in general, this is certainly a disadvantage for those without membership who can't fight for 7 years straight, when you combine the heron with other herons oh boy... you are able to mat after mat each other while cycling inverter, RD and shield.

Ever heard of stuns? They work pretty well against Herons. And I speak from experience as I play the Heron a lot myself and suffer greatly from stuns as not only do you have no defense against it (no prot), it nullifies your speed advantage and messes up your item cycles which you absolutely need to survive considering how brittle that ship is.

Then again, I'm speaking from 5v5 experience not 25v25 so it might be different but it could give you ideas on how to counter it.

What can be seen relative as a PTR environment not reflects a players actuall account as such test are mostly held with the ability to basically buy anything without any effort along with the situation that players in a test enfironment may see things differently.

To that I would add that you would need a solid pool of players to test the mechanics, and this game sadly does not have a big player pool available. Even on the existing PTR I believe that testers are actually very few and far from enough. True or not, I wouldn't know, but I know for sure that when TC4 dropped it clearly wasn't properly tested and there had been a lot of hotfixes because we, the players, had found so many gamebreaking bugs .

 

[Jaax]

Thank you for the answer.
The aggrobeacon HP buff is indeed very welcome, for years we've been laughing on that item for being useless, but it actually sees some use nowadays.
About players' demands, I didn't mean every single one of them of course, I had in mind some of the most recurring and unanimously agreed upon demands such as bug fixes (white items, blasters sometimes not working, performance issues after some time) or any kind of nerf to cloud (for PvP purposes).



About the cloud, I get that the intent is to force players to split to avoid the "punishment" of dealing reduced damage. However, on a game design perspective I think it would've been good to ensure the item feels good to use AND feels good to counter. When it had pre-TC4 range (even if it was just visual), opposing players were forced to split but could still remain in a fight and had to actively avoid the clouded player. Thus, the item provided some kind of counterplay. Right now the range is so large that it's pointless to try and split. As such, players just ignore the cloud and stay packed since that's the strongest strategy.

What I would propose (and I know it would not be easy to implement and am not really asking you to just do it right now, I'm just sharing an opinion):
Reduce the range, reduce the duration, increase the damage penalty.
For sirius variants:
Long could have a large range (like current) and long duration but very low penalty, making it a small but guaranteed nerf to the enemy team.
Strong could have a very small range and rather short duration but have an extreme penalty, making it very potent but also providing a countermeasure (spliting up).

Again that's just an idea and cloud balancing isn't the biggest priority for PG anyway, but I'd sure like to see some change in that direction at some point.



Ever heard of stuns? They work pretty well against Herons. And I speak from experience as I play the Heron a lot myself and suffer greatly from stuns as not only do you have no defense against it (no prot), it nullifies your speed advantage and messes up your item cycles which you absolutely need to survive considering how brittle that ship is.

Then again, I'm speaking from 5v5 experience not 25v25 so it might be different but it could give you ideas on how to counter it.



To that I would add that you would need a solid pool of players to test the mechanics, and this game sadly does not have a big player pool available. Even on the existing PTR I believe that testers are actually very few and far from enough. True or not, I wouldn't know, but I know for sure that when TC4 dropped it clearly wasn't properly tested and there had been a lot of hotfixes because we, the players, had found so many gamebreaking bugs .

Damn if only there was an item on the most popular ship in the game to counter act a stun charge, also I have played enough in the heron to tell you that u can easily avoid DYING from stuns as inverter instantly activates because gg balanced item

 

[Nicoredje]

I don't think it is even that wild of a question.

Look at your boosters. The game already knows when you hit a player if you flag up and whenever to increase your damage while shooting having a booster active.

NPC? It does
Player it does not.

Lets say you would boost increase blaster damage by 20% for PVE What would prevent it from having a "Does 83.3% damage in PVP"?

 

[Eredin]

Everyone with a good understanding of PG knows how unbalanced items are, for example an orbital strike does more damage than an aggrobomb, has a much bigger effective range and has a lower cool down.

Jax you don't get it? Hitting someone with an aggrobomb is much more stylish than a os, after which you can even let out a "DAMN I HIT HIM WITH MY BOMB". Bring back old bomb animation yeah

Ever heard of stuns? They work pretty well against Herons. And I speak from experience as I play the Heron a lot myself and suffer greatly from stuns as not only do you have no defense against it (no prot), it nullifies your speed advantage and messes up your item cycles which you absolutely need to survive considering how brittle that ship is.

I can only confirm this at least for our few experiences I had with Redthorne stunning him

 

[Jaax]

perfs and with that the ships such as VQ, parsec, storm etc could be buffed by simply making it go through inverters, allies cover etc.

 

[Jaax]

Jax you don't get it? Hitting someone with an aggrobomb is much more stylish than a os, after which you can even let out a "DAMN I HIT HIM WITH MY BOMB". Bring back old bomb animation yeah



I can only confirm this at least for our few experiences I had with Redthorne stunning him

I don't know about you eredin but I prefer hitting my enemies with baguettes idk why

 

[Eredin]

I don't know about you eredin but I prefer hitting my enemies with baguettes idk why

I'd rather do it with a pain au chocolat :3

 

[Jaax]

I'd rather do it with a pain au chocolat :3

nah, I am eating those sorry

 

[Redthorne]

Damn if only there was an item on the most popular ship in the game to counter act a stun charge, also I have played enough in the heron to tell you that u can easily avoid DYING from stuns as inverter instantly activates because gg balanced item

Afaik stuns last about twice as long as inverter does, and ships like marl/poe also have a dome to extend that stun. Inverter won't save your ass alone.
And if you still survive, as a Heron without DI (and possibly more) you're basically useless for a minute. Can't do the mat+DI combo, can't shrug off a sudden burst, can't stay around in fights. Sure you're not dead, but you're useless for a while.

 

[Nicoredje]

Afaik stuns last about twice as long as inverter does, and ships like marl/poe also have a dome to extend that stun. Inverter won't save your ass alone.
And if you still survive, as a Heron without DI (and possibly more) you're basically useless for a minute. Can't do the mat+DI combo, can't shrug off a sudden burst, can't stay around in fights. Sure you're not dead, but you're useless for a while.

a stun does little in conquest if the heron is positioned well enough that he is defended by the team. Also shield exists.

 

[Jaax]

Afaik stuns last about twice as long as inverter does, and ships like marl/poe also have a dome to extend that stun. Inverter won't save your ass alone.
And if you still survive, as a Heron without DI (and possibly more) you're basically useless for a minute. Can't do the mat+DI combo, can't shrug off a sudden burst, can't stay around in fights. Sure you're not dead, but you're useless for a while.

In other servers we have bigger cqs than 5v5 trantor cqs where u get protectors and have a team to fall back behind or ur team to push forward.

 

[hektor.barbossa]

Taunt? Doesn't even pull aggro as intended. There are no bad ships? Dominator, Terrorizer, Parsec are completely made useless by lava/horn, Poe/Marl.

If you think that way,discussion is just was of time XD
BUT !
They all have different set of items to use in different proper,not only pvp ....
I use Anln-12 on tc same as horn.One is for one work other is for other.
Cant fly chrome and say that all other ships are shit.
There are ppl like this type of ship,other like that type of ship.
There are no bad ships.If someone say that,mean he use it wrong or dont know where to use it.
Same can say constructor vs onyx. Mostly ppl say onyx is better.Faster more hp,and ofc sa XD
But other prefer have mat for rare situations or newbie,or for someone who not have e to mat and no ms to back fast on planet etc...
Is a game,use what you like,not fly if not like this ship.Simple.
No one order you buy draco tank and grind on sir XD

P.S

Some people buy ship only cause they look great,not because they are op and even morons cant fly on them no worry about pods.

 

[Nijiri]

I Like Trains.

 

[GOTIL0N]

P.S

Some people buy ship only cause they look great,not because they are op and even morons cant fly on them no worry about pods.

Of course there are ships that people buy because they are their ''guilty tastes'' XD that is different, for example, parsecs lovers, dominators lovers, etc.

But oc for functionality issues, a granite for Sirius (to give an example) is much superior to the Dominador, and the Onyx IN MY OPINION for Sirius is better than the constructor

 

[HGus]

Everyone with a good understanding of PG knows how unbalanced items are, for example an orbital strike does more damage than an aggrobomb, has a much bigger effective range and has a lower cool down.

Items were created for specific ship classes. The balance is not focussed on items but on ships, at least for the original 4+1 classes up to Draconis. For example, aggrobomb and orbital strike fit in their roles. Giving higher range and lower cool down to the former will make the tank almost invincible, given its high HP. With the creation of hybrids, the devs needed to adjust other variables like HP and speed based on item combination. It's up to players to find the optimal use for each class, not everything is suitable for any sitiuation, including PVP.

The tank class from vega-draconis is completely out shined by storms for many reasons such as the ability to grind cryonite, blue prints and golds much more effectively. This is just an example of at item that has been power crept,

I disagree. I had been a tanker specialist for more than ten years.

Now I am going to talk about PVE and PVP, these are two completely different game modes in PG, the problem is items in this game are made for PVE not PVP.

Again, items were developed for specific tasks depending on ship class. Not all classes are suitable for the same roles, no matter if PVE or PVP. Every case needs a proper strategy and tactics depending of targets and squad size.

I would suggest we remove the inverters healing affect in conquests.

What will be the purpose of having an item whose funcionality is removed in conquests? If for any reason that is applied I will be sure the players will stop using those ships.

Another over powered item, the cloud. Once again this item is no where near as good in PVE as it is in PVP. In a CQ one cloud can reduce 25 peoples damage significantly

Again, just think your strategy and tactics wisely.

 

[Razor2278]

it would be best if the perforator the inventor because it is too strong aaaa the cloud is also too strong omg it's best to weaken everything I don't know what some people have in their minds why are these items added to the game anyway it would be best if there were no such items no one would cry about it jesus it's strong then it's weak and kill all the ships from rdx yes I don't know it doesn't make sense it's the cloud's fault we're losing omg complaining about everything I don't want to read any of your comments anymore xD

 

[hektor.barbossa]

Of course there are ships that people buy because they are their ''guilty tastes'' XD that is different, for example, parsecs lovers, dominators lovers, etc.

But oc for functionality issues, a granite for Sirius (to give an example) is much superior to the Dominador, and the Onyx IN MY OPINION for Sirius is better than the constructor

True but when you can get onyx,bg,any rdx ship vs constru,domi,terro or anln 12 ?
Imagine You are new player,start after xmas event where can get mostly rdx and some parsec ships and You are not pay player so not buy any on shop.
You will wait 1 year for get rdx on xmas or buy one of old parsecs ?

That is point them.As basic ones before you choice other,better variants from rdx family.
But till thatYou use what you can.Is not old pg where needmonths to grind for sir parsec.
Now ppl can be on sirius in month and get cryo in max 2-3 weeks or faster if grind on sq and otbs
Longer for them is wait for sir stuff that have cryo.
So when you say new player he need wait 1 year for rdx ships,or 8 month for new rdx event with new rdx ship
but also say old parsecs is crap dont buy them,wonder how long take them to stop play XD
Looking on Askone players,some left game in weeks some in month.

So is easy say what ship is better what is worst if you have them all.
But when you are new ?
For that exist parsecs and if for old player they are bad,new player see them as awesome.
Not ruin them gameplay only because in far future exist better ships ^^

P.S

Dominator lost his domination is sirius when stuns get buffed.
Before that he was great for any task in r5 from drag bosses to hunt reds.
Still is way easer use taunt for drag boss to other spot,than do it on bg.