Your ideas for Tau Ceti Part 4 & balancing shipclasses

[KingSub]

What trying to say is, 20% armor bonus works in mizar,sol and draconis. Does it work in Sirius? Maybe, but ancient armor feels weakened. Does it work in Tau Ceti? Why i say all this , is cuz we spend millions of cryonite for an Parsec. I dont feel armor bonus in Tau Ceti. Maybe good changes will come in Part 4 for the Parsec shipclass

 

[Vesperion]

Why i say all this , is cuz we spend millions of cryonite for an Parsec. I dont feel armor bonus in Tau Ceti. Maybe good changes will come in Part 4 for the Parsec shipclass

Thing with Parsecs is that they "lost their status of beeing an prestige ship" like in the days way back. If a Pilot really wants it a Parsec is nowadays a thing for a few days up to a week of farming when in Sirius+. So the last bit the Parsecs can "excel" is in the "armor Bonus" + beeing able to be always the "entry ship" for a new system due their armor mostly is the bulk armor of the system ship itself.

 

[NGSpeed]

What trying to say is, 20% armor bonus works in mizar,sol and draconis. Does it work in Sirius? Maybe, but ancient armor feels weakened. Does it work in Tau Ceti? Why i say all this , is cuz we spend millions of cryonite for an Parsec. I dont feel armor bonus in Tau Ceti. Maybe good changes will come in Part 4 for the Parsec shipclass

It actually works. The Meta Ships have a methanoid armor which is lvl 76 shiplevel. If you compare Meta-05 Sniper Methanoid armor to Disruptor with Sirius armor(lvl 76 shiplevel aswell) then you will find your +20% armor bonus.

The armor's of TC ships let it be neon or prototypes might get an armor update. I personally like it right now, because I like challenges.

The gameplay in sirius is high HP with low damage and in Tau Ceti it is the opposite, keep that in mind. If you wanna visualize it even more go to Molikar with a high tech mizar ship and try to beat a deathsquad lvl 44 or three detonators lvl 44 at the same time on your own without damage deflector and firepower-relais. ^^

 

[Fra_592]

Also don't forget that both neons + prototypes have had an armor for earth (P2) and will get a second one in P4. At the moment, we are kinda like on Mantis Hive with thermo armor. That won't change the parsec vs neon balance, but that will make a difference on survivability.

 

[LordCougar]

I checked on my Pares/Hybrid ships i have: RDX-01 Obsidian, AnIn-3 Constructor, AnIn-S78 Disruptor, RDX-08 Chromian Corundum, HyAn Mutilator Parsec, all those ships armours are calculated with each upgrade from base armour which means: base armour (mizar) + 334%(sol) 701%(sol II) 2611%(draco) 5320%(siri) 8039%(Ancient) 13648%(TC)

example:

6836 HP (HyAn Mizar armour) : next calculated levels: 29668 54756 185323 370511 556382 939813 6319 HP (chrome) ..... 5240 HP (disruptor).... 6038 HP (obsi)

 

[NGSpeed]

@LordCougar so you want to show that the increase from Mizar to Sol and Sol to Draconis is much higher than Draconis to Sirius and Sirius to Tau Ceti or what's your point?

 

[LordCougar]

my point is, that all armour level on parsec/hybrid ships are calculated the same,so if you claim some x ship has no 20 percent bonus in tc, it means all ships doesnt.

standard ships with deluvian armour have different calculations than parsec/hybrid so your fell that tc ships (thinderbird... ) has the same armour it may be true.

Thunderbird Termograde armour : 828136 HP
Obsi TC Armour: 830104 HP

Doesnt have parsec so cant compare it.

etc
I can tell you that Advanced Sol constructor has less armour than standard sol engi with deluvian armour which mens its basede hp its a joke so its nerfed so badly, even standard ships have it more

HP of ships is a joke in pg, its a fact and true as some guess


P.S. Making obsi has 20 percent more armour measn making all TC ships armour increase to by 20 percent, or they have to decrease hp of all enemy units or their firepower

 

[NGSpeed]

wait your post is full of mistakes
1) X-Ship armor bonus is 25% not 20%
2) Prototype ships are exactly calculated on standard ships with Deluvian Armor (btw a Thunderbird is his own shipclass, neither a Storm or Sniper. He has his own base armor and we will only be able to categorize/compare him when he has his Deluvian Armor)
3)No, the Constructor doesn't have less armor than a Deluvian armored Sol Engineer?!?!

 

[LordCougar]

Rare ships has +25% like X-Ships , and hybrid/parsec has +20%
so sol rare Sniper: 43586 HP > sol Disruptor: 41972 HP

yes, constructor has less armour in sol than standard engii, its base armor doesnt have 20% bonus compared to standard engi with deluv armour.

Constructor : Adc Sol 41067 HP vs STAM S-Stellar Engineer with deluvian 42593HP

HP(base armour) of some Anin/Hybrid ships may have 20 percent bonus, other may not have like constructor which means if they are bad in lover system means in higher they are completly joke, as armour increase is const for every level.

dont have all ships so cant check them all but mayby only engi is so screwed.

Ah if you want to know how to check hp of ships, you need to use network sniffer to check network transmissionbetwen windows and some ip ->game servers, and there is hitpoits field with ship actual hp value, so better be sure if your ship is fully repair to know full hp

 

[NGSpeed]

Are you trolling? What did you test?

yes, constructor has less armour in sol than standard engii, its base armor doesnt have 20% bonus compared to standard engi with deluv armour.

Constructor : Adc Sol 41067 HP vs STAM S-Stellar Engineer with deluvian 42593HP

HP(base armour) of some Anin/Hybrid ships may have 20 percent bonus, other may not have like constructor which means if they are bad in lover system means in higher they are completly joke, as armour increase is const for every level.

dont have all ships so cant check them all but mayby only engi is so screwed.

Ah if you want to know how to check hp of ships, you need to use network sniffer to check network transmissionbetwen windows and some ip ->game servers, and there is hitpoits field with ship actual hp value, so better be sure if your ship is fully repair to know full hp

I recommend you to not use any third party programs and definitely not post that in the forum.
@everyone, he did "fake news" and here you can clearly see that the Constructor has more armor. I friendly asked a Pyro on Earth to set me on fire and in the screenshots you see that the Constructor has more HP left than the Sol Deluvian armored Engineer, as everyone knows that a Thermoblaster has ALWAYS the same fix amount of damage.

 

[LordCougar]

I woudnt be sure if i were you that taken damage is constant for anything including diffrerent armours as they used in update news many times word normalized, which means they made changes that everything isn't hardcoded values, only calculated by some factor which confirm increased of ships hp using base hp value and percentage.
I woudnt be even supprised, than armour of neon ships are calculated differently than old pre draco ships.

I showed you way to check those values by yourself, and what i has read place ships in order exacly the same to fission list. But he has checked only Hybrid/Anin/Neon ships not old one.

As i dont have anymore sol constructor, only draco, so i just checked his actual hp (138992 HP) and deluvian sol engi 42593. Using fomula seems values are correct, you may only claim they have changed formula for costructor after they nerfed lately so badly its bp's - protector mainly.

Personaly i doubt, as they wrote few times about normalizing everything in game in update news, so i thing its rather damager is calculated diferently to different types of armours. There are other things that suggest that, but as you using values from protocoll call fake not even checkng them no point even to write here, not your intelectual level

Ah using indelepnded tools its not crime, everybody can check what is happening on his own computer and what is sent using his networkcard, such tools are available on many sites, even on microsoft.

 

[NGSpeed]

I woudnt be sure if i were you that taken damage is constant for anything including diffrerent armours as they used in update news many times word normalized, which means they made changes that everything isn't hardcoded values, only calculated by some factor which confirm increased of ships hp using base hp value and percentage.
I woudnt be even supprised, than armour of neon ships are calculated differently than old pre draco ships.

I showed you way to check those values by yourself, and what i has read place ships in order exacly the same to fission list. But he has checked only Hybrid/Anin/Neon ships not old one.

As i dont have anymore sol constructor, only draco, so i just checked his actual hp (138992 HP) and deluvian sol engi 42593. Using fomula seems values are correct, you may only claim they have changed formula for costructor after they nerfed lately so badly its bp's - protector mainly.

Personaly i doubt, as they wrote few times about normalizing everything in game in update news, so i thing its rather damager is calculated diferently to different types of armours. There are other things that suggest that, but as you using values from protocoll call fake not even checkng them no point even to write here, not your intelectual level

Ah using indelepnded tools its not crime, everybody can check what is happening on his own computer and what is sent using his networkcard, such tools are available on many sites, even on microsoft.

@Highway, I don't want to be offensive or disrespectful, but this guy is something else can you please help me out and confirm that he is telling false statements?

 

[LordCougar]

heheh, seems you dont understand what i wrote, i havent wrote that your result of constructor survivability is wrong, it may be exacly like you show in sol. I was talking about hp values of ships read directly from game protocol.
If this game is calculating damage in some weird ways - this game has 10 years, there may be old code for old ships other for newer, factors we doesn't know completely etc... in the result finally ships with theoretical less hp amount may survive longer than those with higher amount especially in old systems, o - we dont know algorithms.
It may be reason why they dont want to show us any real value in game of hp/damage/shields, its because direct interpretation may have completely no sense without knowing mathematics equatuons.

As you calculate values of anin/hybrid/neon ships i gave you, you will see they are exactly like fission show on his list - means order, but he only did it for TC armor.

I put here constructor value not to destroy your world, i was supprised exacly like you in the past when i upgraded my constructor and i saw this. Maybe they changed this now - as i wrote i dont have anymore sol constructor, i gave you clue how to check this. string hitpoints and just after it is hp of ships, and second string health and after it is healt in percent of your ship. Go to hangar start capturing game packets, go to orbit , stop capturing, find those string and value after.

My conclusion just wasn't that its fake, mayby they are calculation damage in the way we didnt thought.

But after i realized in the past that this hp is so weak i stooped upgrading my constructor and haven't finished it till now. Maybe i should remove this draco armour to check, but based on just read value of draco armor seems everything is as it was in the past - if percentage still works on constructor

 

[LordCougar]

Ahh i can give you my last ship Disruptor value from sol read directly from protocol: 41972, considering Sniper Rare: 43586 has 25percent compared to 20% of disruptor, so values are correct, i dont see reason to doubt in values of constructor 41067 which has similar amount of hp like disruptor - for me everything from mathematical point of view is correct.
i have stanrard sol engi so if add to it 20 percent costructor should have 51111 hp, which is too high coapret to other ships o like disruptor/obsi/hyan i have, engi is not a tank ship. Issue here is not constructor, only why standard engi has so many hp.
Old ships ??? old code of damage calculation ??,we only guess

 

[Fission]

Hello Pilots im a bit confused about this topic, many pilots said that ne0ns are not at same level as the parsec which we replied that its logical but this topic is actually the opposite, saying that ne0ns are at level of the parsecs?

I think thermoblast can always give good value of that and maths actually shows aswell

 

[NGSpeed]

@Fission
It started with @KingSub saying

I think some players who are in Tau Ceti will agree with me. We have a huge problem. Armor balance is not given at all and the prototype ships do not have 20% more armor. As an example of the ne0n Kodiak and Parsec Storm, according to Fission they both have exactly the same armor.

ne0n Kodiak 6.666HP
Parsec Storm 6.666HP

[..

Then @Fra_592 , @Vesperion and me explained why armors aren't compareable. @KingSub was happy and this subtopic was done.

After all of that @LordCougar joined the subtopic without quoting which of our messages he wants to add more value to. Giving out numbers generated with other programs stating they are better calculated then the actual game and he also test it in the game. So I thought if that is true I need to give it a try and I proved he was wrong. He lied by saying a Sol Engineer with Deluvian Armor has more armor then a Constructor with Advanced Sol Armor, which was "calculated" by whatever program and network scanning. Therefore his other statements and numbers he is throwing throu this thread are not reliable without prove. He still tries to argue that he is not wrong and he won't stop...
It's like teaching a flat-earther that the world is actually not flat haha

 

[Fission]

Thanks for the explanation @NGSpeed , its normal that between community difference of opinions between ship balancing are found, since numbers are not literally shown.

We all have the right to make confusions sometimes but its true that using extern programs and network scanning is not something that we support if its affecting the game itself.

 

[Fra_592]

Constructor : Adc Sol 41067 HP vs STAM S-Stellar Engineer with deluvian 42593HP
HP(base armour) of some Anin/Hybrid ships may have 20 percent bonus, other may not have like constructor which means if they are bad in lover system means in higher they are completly joke, as armour increase is const for every level.

While this statement might or might not be true concerning some internal values, as a player, i can ensure you that an advanced sol constructor tanks more and always tanked more than a deluvian STAM S-Stellar Engineer. Now, i don't know if that effect comes from their HP values, from some incoming damages modifiers, or from some weird special cases in damage calculations, but seeing that the final effect has been a constant, as a lazy developer, i would assume nothing changed in here for years hence i would favor the first hypothesis. But in the end, what really matters here in my book is not how the internals work, but the final result, aka which ship can tank more damages, and it has been a constant on this than 1) prototypes do take 20% less damages than their regular blue equivalents of equal level - it wasn't always the case for draconis because methanoid armor was allowed in draconis, and for sirius because ancient ships were kinda "out of the system" , but those are fixed since a few years now, and TC ships really seem to follow this precept as well 2) prototypes are also 20% harder to heal than their regular blue equivalents, either by self-heal or shared heals.

 

[Vesperion]

The thing with numbers and stuff is if they are only "available by using some sort of Programms" we still have no idea about the calculation values and stuff so in the end it still stays at speculations. I for one are a "fighter for numbers" that clearly show us how much points we have, what base dmg a weapon does along with the +- values of variation.

All calculations and armor bonus that are known are more or less facts that have been discovered by V1 when he did make the Hitchikers Guide AND PvP was a way to measure things with the Thermoblast and Split does stick to those values how it looks.

In the end this topic would be an never ending story due of "expectations". I for example thought going for a Disruptor is a good idea but after a while i notices that it feel "weak" in compare to my TC Fleet that is basicly Hunter, Para, Chrom and Slate as my main ships that are used depending on the situation.

 

[The_Ghost]

@LordCougar I would suggest looking at armor of stam engi again as a while back r60 ship health was reduced. When they made that change it did not reduce your current ships health to the new cap so you could have over 100% of the new cap (34,111) until you took some damage.