Show Stats of the Items/Ships

[Vesperion]

As an addition to the other post i made some time ago -->[Suggestion] Giving us actuall HP next to the %-Indicators<-- i did work on something that should more or less act as an example to show us the actual Stats of the Items/Ships in the Hangar/Equip section due of the always upcoming discussion about HP Rankings and stuff.

The basic gist is simply put... showing us the actual numbers of the items/ships we can buy/install to have some sort of "idea how effective the item is with the +- values at the end.

Ship Stats:
Here an example of the Purchase screen on the left that shows simply the HP and flight speed of a ship (hawk in this case )when we "just buy the Hull" (Left side)

On the right side we see in the Hangar the current HP of the ship we have selected depending on the installed armor and in the armor section of the Configuration we see the HP of each Armor state when it will be installed.

Due i wanted to have "all available" armors i did chose the Slate here as an example with example number values and did not use the numbers of the -->HP Ranking of Tau Ceti Ships<-- post.


Item Stats:
As next part for a few examples are the "main items" of each ship (if we exclude the AB due Paragneiss is the only ship that has no AB at that point) and what we could see if we want to purchase them or if we select them in the Item section of the ship. Again all numbers are just examples + i guess the one or other stat may now be missing or needs finetuning (like crit-% chance for blaster or how much reduction of Thrust force for each level difference between AB level and Ship level etc.)


Items that do receive benefits from drones or boosters could also receive some sort of extra numbers in different colours like for example if the pilot has the RDX Drone equiped it shows the following
CD of RD: base CD (50s) - RDX Effect 5% (2.5s) = 47,5s CD

If the Pilot has a booster for example the dmg booster + the A112 dmg drone it shows the following:
Min-Max dmg (100 - 175) + A112 Effect 10% (10 - 18 (rounded up)) + Firepower Relay Effect (20%) 20 - 35 = min-max dmg (130 - 228)
Critical dmg: Min-Max dmg formula * 2 = 260 - 456

If you made it until this point to read all this stuff i thank you for reading about me and my crazy ideas i have from time to time. As always comment, make own suggestion/ideas/etc. and maybe if we do discuss enough about it Split may decide to give us more numbers rather then relying on assumings and weird testings

Regards - Vesp

 

[Fission]

Hello Vesperion,

Giving stats about Blasters for example would only be fair in PvE scenarios, since in PvP the damage you deal is also based in the ship system u fighting, so giving a Set number as you did in the weapon stats, would lead to many confusions.

Similar thing can be applied to the Repair Droids, which are balanced depending if your repair droid level is higher than your armor ship level. In that case giving a healing number would also not be accurate.

Those are just some drawbacks to the idea, even tho giving the ship HP and ship speed would be easier, but i dont think the numbers would be as cool as 15.500 HP as in TC armor, but instead a mess of some hundreds of thousands

 

[HGus]

Those are just some drawbacks to the idea, even tho giving the ship HP and ship speed would be easier, but i dont think the numbers would be as cool as 15.500 HP as in TC armor, but instead a mess of some hundreds of thousands

Not exactly. According to old calculations, a Ancient Dominator is only 19619 times stronger than a Phoenix.

 

[Fission]

The fact that Dominator was 19619 doesn't mean the HP of the Phoenix was 1

Numbers are always big

 

[Vesperion]

Giving stats about Blasters for example would only be fair in PvE scenarios, since in PvP the damage you deal is also based in the ship system u fighting, so giving a Set number as you did in the weapon stats, would lead to many confusions.

Main Issue with PvE vs PvP is simply put that it gives 2 different values since a while now cus in old times it was not made a difference between the system ships so that i understand Split had to put in some "countermeasures" in order to prevent low level slaugthering like in the old times so this would really be the hardest thing to tackle in terms of showing stats of the weapons in PvE and PvP scenarios.

Similar thing can be applied to the Repair Droids, which are balanced depending if your repair droid level is higher than your armor ship level. In that case giving a healing number would also not be accurate.

According to my understanding it was changed at some point so that no "overheal" could happen if a high-lvl rd was installed in a smaller ship (best noticable now when using high RField/RTurr in lower systems but the repair is insanly small now).

Imo however i see no real issue for high-lvl items used in lower-lvled ship cus somewhere the formula for that is running around as well so it would be simply solved by adding that as - lvl-difference (x%) and it would be understood that higher item-lvl brings actually a disatvantage until the lvl between the ship and the item are even.

The fact that Dominator was 19619 doesn't mean the HP of the Phoenix was 1

Numbers are always big

Make it big numbers make it small numbers (every game does it differently cus i have already seen games that throw with millions of damage around). From another thread that some pilot is runing around and claims that he knows the actuall HP of the ships (only due of somehow reading the numbers out of the game with an programm) and even he claims that the TC ships have something around 800k of HP so make it for the TC Domi and Blaze maybe 1kk.

In the end the whole depends on only 1 thing:
How well will the stats be implemented and how well is Split doing the informative flow to "understand" the stats of them. In the end i don´t really buy the "statement" that devs want to keep actual numbers away in order to "not confuse" the pilots but showing us useless numbers (killed units/Signets/Logfiles) is fine?

As we clearly can see from the HP Ranking thread Pilots are interested in actuall numbers so why not give them?

 

[KingSub]

Hello Vesperion,

Giving stats about Blasters for example would only be fair in PvE scenarios, since in PvP the damage you deal is also based in the ship system u fighting, so giving a Set number as you did in the weapon stats, would lead to many confusions.

Similar thing can be applied to the Repair Droids, which are balanced depending if your repair droid level is higher than your armor ship level. In that case giving a healing number would also not be accurate.

Those are just some drawbacks to the idea, even tho giving the ship HP and ship speed would be easier, but i dont think the numbers would be as cool as 15.500 HP as in TC armor, but instead a mess of some hundreds of thousands

I completely agree. To introduce that will be as difficult as it sounds. Unfortunately, pve and pvp doesnt work in the same way. Maybe we could test and examine this with a few friends so that you can really implement it. We have the values, but only for Tau Ceti. That would be a long way...

We have to ask ourselves ... do we have any advantages of that? Except that looks cool, but grrr.. and blueprints don't really make such big leaps. does not matter which tech / bp. I assume that there is a 10-15% increase for blueprints IF the armor level is right.

If the armor level is low, the effectiveness of the blueprints will increases naturally.

If the armor level is high, it will not increase, thats it. Blueprints will work 100% as it should. No more not less.

 

[Vesperion]

So after some months have passed and the latest update has droped and checking the newest implementation i may have given to much hope for i think it´s fair to give this post another push for "more"

Item Level/Effectiveness, Ship Level/Capability Icons
The "level ring" icon we introduced with ship configuration handling in hangars is now showing additional information and has been added to other parts of the game as well.

Well... the new information is aside from maybe showing that even the HH site is not in all informations correct (RDX Ships have for example a bonus of 25% instead of just 20% like that the Anln Parsec ships have) it´s interesting to see that Ancient Items show now difference in their effectiveness no matter if balanced, strong or rapid/long what makes no sense at all.

If those infos would be correct it would be the smartest move to just use rapid/long tech due the faster CD they have in combination with mostly longer active times so i assume in terms of the Siri Items it more relates to an "over the time they equal to ~18% more effectiveness" rathern then "~18% more effective in compare to the regualr Item of the same rank" (what basicly is the top blue BP anyways)

In terms of numbers... well this is still way to vague then to really provide any information that can be worked with.

If Split really has the fear to throw with enormus numbers around in the game HUD (like for example the HP bar) with the current tooltip they can "hide those numbers" and i think no one would be mad about it. In fact i would even prefer to have an option where i could simply decide if i want to have an numerical HP-Bar or the %HP-Bar (this is more related to my other topic about the HUD rework for the HP indicator though).

I mean it´s not so that we ask for numbers flying around the screen like an normal RPG cus again we just ask for "numbers that we can understand and work with cus our inner nerd wants to understand the things rather then vaguly assume things on own formulas that may be way off the actuall stuff"

 

[Fission]

Also HH doesn't have information about speed bonus as its mentioned on the tooltip

 

[HGus]

Well... the new information is aside from maybe showing that even the HH site is not in all informations correct (RDX Ships have for example a bonus of 25% instead of just 20% like that the Anln Parsec ships have)

You should note that RDX armor bonus are just estimated and not actual cause those are all hybrids and cannot be matched with accuracy against a standard class. Per example, we already know that Obsidian is roughly 5% stronger than Parsec (proto storm), but Obsidian is an hybrid storm. If you do the math, you will find that 100 (storm index) over 1.2 (prototype bonus) times 1.25 (RDX bonus) equals about 104, which is close to Obsidian index. The same happens with Onyx Marble (hybrid engineer) vs Constructor (proto engineer). But, Black Granite (hybrid tank) is below Dominator (proto tank) by 20%, giving the BG a relative armor index of 120 compared to standard storm (or 130 against Parsec). Lets do some math based on items: BG has 2 tank items, 1 shock item and 1 enginner item, if we add the relative indexes, we get 150 x 2 + 95 + 90 = 485, then divide by 4 to get an average 121%, whitch is close to BG reduced index (that is, before applying the 25% bonus)

 

[Darkos]

For me, numbers are a must to have.
The formula is existing in the game and i think it's simple to describe it.
Of course many things changed with level efficiency.
There is a lot of mysteries about it and many attempt to calculate it, but if the numbers are given, we can work something that everyone understand.
Dev can communicate the formula on the forum, then we can talk about it and see what is the best way to write it on the items.
I'm sure it's not a big deal.
And for PVP.. well you just have to say that the numbers are for PVE and that it works differently in PVP.
Having these numbers will not break the game or something we just want to have more knowledge .. I guess.
And saying that the dominator is 19365 stronger than phoenix ... Don't you see for yourselves how ridiculous has became the situation? ? How we lack of numbers ? Look at what we have to go through to get these ! It's not normal.

 

[HGus]

And saying that the dominator is 19365 stronger than phoenix ... Don't you see for yourselves how ridiculous has became the situation? ? How we lack of numbers ? Look at what we have to go through to get these ! It's not normal.

19619 (not 19365) is an old figure (taken from a trivia in HH's) that comes from assigning a value of 1 HP to the Phoenix, then Dominator was 19619 HP, that is 19619 times stronger than Phoenix hull. Anyway those values were calculated before the armor update. Here the old data:

 

[Darkos]

19619 (not 19365) is an old figure (taken from a trivia in HH's) that comes from assigning a value of 1 HP to the Phoenix, then Dominator was 19619 HP, that is 19619 times stronger than Phoenix hull. Anyway those values were calculated before the armor update. Here the old data:
View attachment 48317

I know these datas, who didn't used them ? ^^
I just wanted to say how much effort we have to do to get these numbers, and this one for me is " ridiculous" (i do respect what V1-Hyper did and i thank him, i always used his site) because it shows how much we lack of data in this game.