PvP Overhaul Part 2 Ideas & Feedback

[Poland]

Hey everyone. We have our Conquest Rework Update implemented soon. Mostly I do not do such topics on forums here but I would like to do so now so that the ideas might be collected with more sorted way.

The latest major update had shown that some items still got their issues in usage. The game PvP mechanic is still not looking like it should (at least its that what have been said by many players) so there is my thread here.

As a responses to it, i would like to see your opinions and ideas how the specific items would need to be changed. Please follow the specific form so that it can be sorted better:

Item: name_of_the_item
Change: fast description what to adjust and how
Explanation: Why basically you think the change is necessary to implement? Good, if you make some evidence or calculations so Devs might see it more reasonable explanation.

Thanks for your spent time. Hoping for nice ideas to come here I will post some of mine later on.

 

[KingSub]

Hey everyone. We have our Conquest Rework Update implemented soon. Mostly I do not do such topics on forums here but I would like to do so now so that the ideas might be collected with more sorted way.

The latest major update had shown that some items still got their issues in usage. The game PvP mechanic is still not looking like it should (at least its that what have been said by many players) so there is my thread here.

As a responses to it, i would like to see your opinions and ideas how the specific items would need to be changed. Please follow the specific form so that it can be sorted better:

Item: name_of_the_item
Change: fast description what to adjust and how
Explanation: Why basically you think the change is necessary to implement? Good, if you make some evidence or calculations so Devs might see it more reasonable explanation.

Thanks for your spent time. Hoping for nice ideas to come here I will post some of mine later on.

To do an overhaul for PvP we must analyse each Starsystem and each Ship with different Tech-Variation e.g Rare/Ancient/Long/Rapid/Strong. Some ships have benefits if you compare them to Draconis or Sirius Ships. And some Ships seems to be OP in Tau Ceti, maybe it is because of the low level armor combined with high level tech. This problem should be solved this year when Part 4 is done. Then we can look how PvP will work out and how each Ship will peform in terms of power and efficiency

I dont think that there is any problem in PvP, except in Tau Ceti, but this is due to the level difference that will solved soon.


e.g for PvP wins and fails in Tau Ceti

Chromian Corndum wins against Parsec Storm( well if the third blaster would make extra damage it would work lmao)
Chromian Corundum loses against Blazin Lava(long fight both can win)
Chromian Corundum wins against Emperor( Emperor had better days years ago. Emperor could win with a small chance)
Blazing Lava wins against Quartz( i m not say anything)
Blazin Lava wins against Parsec Storm(poor storm)
Hunter loses against Wolfhound(embarrassing for the hunter. Hunter has no chance.)
Black Slate wins against Panther(funny long fight. Panther has no chance)
Disruptor wins against Thunderbird(food for the canon. thunderbird could win but it is not easy)
Disruptor loses against Chromian Corundum (most winner chromi. disruptor has no chance)
Paragneiss loses against Chromian Corundum (most winner chromi here thanks to the speed)
Parsec Storm wins against Emperor (decent fight. both can win. parsec storm has the upperhand here)
Parsec Storm wins against Black Slate (hard fight. both can win, but Storm is better here armor means nothing for damage)

e.g for Sirius and Draconis*

Disruptor wins against Chromian Corundum( after multiple times PvP the Disruptor has the upperhand here)
Hunter wins against Chromian Corundum with a death wish(both could win, but chromi has a better chance. long fight.)
Chromian Corundum wins against Paragneiss(well...)
Parsec Storm wins against Quartz( decent fight. both can win)
Quartz wins against Blazin Lava( blazin lava has the upperhand here but the quartz has also a chance)
Terrorizer wins against Hunter(decent but long fight)

 

[Eredin]

To do an overhaul for PvP we must analyse each Starsystem and each Ship with different Tech-Variation e.g Rare/Ancient/Long/Rapid/Strong. Some ships have benefits if you compare them to Draconis or Sirius Ships. And some Ships seems to be OP in Tau Ceti, maybe it is because of the low level armor combined with high level tech. This problem should be solved this year when Part 4 is done. Then we can look how PvP will work out and how each Ship will peform in terms of power and efficiency

I dont think that there is any problem in PvP, except in Tau Ceti, but this is due to the level difference that will solved soon.


e.g for PvP wins and fails in Tau Ceti

Chromian Corndum wins against Parsec Storm( well if the third blaster would make extra damage it would work lmao)
Chromian Corundum loses against Blazin Lava(long fight both can win)
Chromian Corundum wins against Emperor( Emperor had better days years ago. Emperor could win with a small chance)
Blazing Lava wins against Quartz( i m not say anything)
Blazin Lava wins against Parsec Storm(poor storm)
Hunter loses against Wolfhound(embarrassing for the hunter. Hunter has no chance.)
Black Slate wins against Panther(funny long fight. Panther has no chance)
Disruptor wins against Thunderbird(food for the canon. thunderbird could win but it is not easy)
Disruptor loses against Chromian Corundum (most winner chromi. disruptor has no chance)
Paragneiss loses against Chromian Corundum (most winner chromi here thanks to the speed)
Parsec Storm wins against Emperor (decent fight. both can win. parsec storm has the upperhand here)
Parsec Storm wins against Black Slate (hard fight. both can win, but Storm is better here armor means nothing for damage)

e.g for Sirius and Draconis*

Disruptor wins against Chromian Corundum( after multiple times PvP the Disruptor has the upperhand here)
Hunter wins against Chromian Corundum with a death wish(both could win, but chromi has a better chance. long fight.)
Chromian Corundum wins against Paragneiss(well...)
Parsec Storm wins against Quartz( decent fight. both can win)
Quartz wins against Blazin Lava( blazin lava has the upperhand here but the quartz has also a chance)
Terrorizer wins against Hunter(decent but long fight)

Did you tested all these 1v1's several times to get these conclusions?

Greetings

 

[KingSub]

Did you tested all these 1v1's several times to get these conclusions?

Greetings

yes in ptr

 

[KingSub]

strangely the ships and items for the lower systems are in good balance, while tau ceti shows a hand off overpowered ships with his items. armor is nothing compared to high damage dealing ships. to find out which ship deals the most damage in a effective way or in a long way. that what i've found hat.

Paragneiss deals huge damage in a long way to an Anubis.
Disruptor deals a effective damage in a short way to the Anubis.

that means that the Disruptor can kill the Anubis faster than Paragneiss(sometimes rockets miss)
Disruptor deals also way better damage to multiple units than Paragneiss

Disruptor is on top again. What is with Kodiak? Well this ship does almost the same like Disruptor, in a short way huge damage, but with his longer cooldowns he is just a punching bag in PvE and PvP(to bad that devs overpowered his armor against the Parsec Storm)

 

[Hecatte]

To do an overhaul for PvP we must analyse each Starsystem and each Ship with different Tech-Variation e.g Rare/Ancient/Long/Rapid/Strong. Some ships have benefits if you compare them to Draconis or Sirius Ships. And some Ships seems to be OP in Tau Ceti, maybe it is because of the low level armor combined with high level tech. This problem should be solved this year when Part 4 is done. Then we can look how PvP will work out and how each Ship will peform in terms of power and efficiency

I dont think that there is any problem in PvP, except in Tau Ceti, but this is due to the level difference that will solved soon.


e.g for PvP wins and fails in Tau Ceti

Chromian Corndum wins against Parsec Storm( well if the third blaster would make extra damage it would work lmao)
Chromian Corundum loses against Blazin Lava(long fight both can win)
Chromian Corundum wins against Emperor( Emperor had better days years ago. Emperor could win with a small chance)
Blazing Lava wins against Quartz( i m not say anything)
Blazin Lava wins against Parsec Storm(poor storm)
Hunter loses against Wolfhound(embarrassing for the hunter. Hunter has no chance.)
Black Slate wins against Panther(funny long fight. Panther has no chance)
Disruptor wins against Thunderbird(food for the canon. thunderbird could win but it is not easy)
Disruptor loses against Chromian Corundum (most winner chromi. disruptor has no chance)
Paragneiss loses against Chromian Corundum (most winner chromi here thanks to the speed)
Parsec Storm wins against Emperor (decent fight. both can win. parsec storm has the upperhand here)
Parsec Storm wins against Black Slate (hard fight. both can win, but Storm is better here armor means nothing for damage)

e.g for Sirius and Draconis*

Disruptor wins against Chromian Corundum( after multiple times PvP the Disruptor has the upperhand here)
Hunter wins against Chromian Corundum with a death wish(both could win, but chromi has a better chance. long fight.)
Chromian Corundum wins against Paragneiss(well...)
Parsec Storm wins against Quartz( decent fight. both can win)
Quartz wins against Blazin Lava( blazin lava has the upperhand here but the quartz has also a chance)
Terrorizer wins against Hunter(decent but long fight)

Heya, I like to see that there are ideas shared, but I have to say something about some of mentions above
In the Tau Ceti mention, I will mention about hunter and wolfhound.... I dont get how on earth hunter would actually loose when you said some Tau Ceti items are overpowered.... Hunter has overpowered speed actuator where damage gets insane, same for cooldowns... where stun less cooldown than protector.
About Chromiam vs Lava in Tau Ceti aswell, corundum has same advantage as hunter due of actuator... and protector cooldown is even less compared to other ships. Even in direct fight against lava, corundum will win because of overpowered speed
Now about Draconis/Sirius mention about Hunter vs Terro
I will 1st mention that marlstone is a better terro because it has shield instead beacon... and marlstone still doesnt have the upper hand. How terro will actually win vs hunter that has alot of burst damage and can even kill terro through rd?

 

[Eredin]

To do an overhaul for PvP we must analyse each Starsystem and each Ship with different Tech-Variation e.g Rare/Ancient/Long/Rapid/Strong. Some ships have benefits if you compare them to Draconis or Sirius Ships. And some Ships seems to be OP in Tau Ceti, maybe it is because of the low level armor combined with high level tech. This problem should be solved this year when Part 4 is done. Then we can look how PvP will work out and how each Ship will peform in terms of power and efficiency

I dont think that there is any problem in PvP, except in Tau Ceti, but this is due to the level difference that will solved soon.


e.g for PvP wins and fails in Tau Ceti

Chromian Corndum wins against Parsec Storm( well if the third blaster would make extra damage it would work lmao)
Chromian Corundum loses against Blazin Lava(long fight both can win)
Chromian Corundum wins against Emperor( Emperor had better days years ago. Emperor could win with a small chance)
Blazing Lava wins against Quartz( i m not say anything)
Blazin Lava wins against Parsec Storm(poor storm)
Hunter loses against Wolfhound(embarrassing for the hunter. Hunter has no chance.)
Black Slate wins against Panther(funny long fight. Panther has no chance)
Disruptor wins against Thunderbird(food for the canon. thunderbird could win but it is not easy)
Disruptor loses against Chromian Corundum (most winner chromi. disruptor has no chance)
Paragneiss loses against Chromian Corundum (most winner chromi here thanks to the speed)
Parsec Storm wins against Emperor (decent fight. both can win. parsec storm has the upperhand here)
Parsec Storm wins against Black Slate (hard fight. both can win, but Storm is better here armor means nothing for damage)

e.g for Sirius and Draconis*

Disruptor wins against Chromian Corundum( after multiple times PvP the Disruptor has the upperhand here)
Hunter wins against Chromian Corundum with a death wish(both could win, but chromi has a better chance. long fight.)
Chromian Corundum wins against Paragneiss(well...)
Parsec Storm wins against Quartz( decent fight. both can win)
Quartz wins against Blazin Lava( blazin lava has the upperhand here but the quartz has also a chance)
Terrorizer wins against Hunter(decent but long fight)

You did all these fights agains't a human or a bot ? As Hec said there are a lot of mistakes.

Greetings

 

[Fission]

Chromian Corundum loses against Blazin Lava(long fight both can win)
Hunter loses against Wolfhound(embarrassing for the hunter. Hunter has no chance.)
Parsec Storm wins against Emperor (decent fight. both can win. parsec storm has the upperhand here)

Parsec Storm wins against Quartz( decent fight. both can win)
Terrorizer wins against Hunter(decent but long fight)

Hello @KingSub ,

I might say those 5 cases u described here are the ones that i can't really understand how. I do think you did those tests with someone that doesn't abuse the range on ships with sniper blaster, since wolfhound and parsec storm could never catch up on either hunter or emperor, leaving those two in free damage output on the opponents. This also applies to sirius Terrorizer winning against Sirius Hunter

Regarding the chromian case, even tho it is true that its a long fight, chromian will always win if played properly just by pure cooldown managment, since at the end, blazing lava doesn't have enough DPS (if placed MT as it should) to burst down the low cooldown timers of repairs and protectors that chromian case.

Due to this, i would suggest you to try to 1v1's with different people and don't focus a test case as valid just due to specific duels versus someone, since that could lead to some wierd results

Greetings,
Fission

 

[Getagripx]

To do an overhaul for PvP we must analyse each Starsystem and each Ship with different Tech-Variation e.g Rare/Ancient/Long/Rapid/Strong. Some ships have benefits if you compare them to Draconis or Sirius Ships. And some Ships seems to be OP in Tau Ceti, maybe it is because of the low level armor combined with high level tech. This problem should be solved this year when Part 4 is done. Then we can look how PvP will work out and how each Ship will peform in terms of power and efficiency

I dont think that there is any problem in PvP, except in Tau Ceti, but this is due to the level difference that will solved soon.


e.g for PvP wins and fails in Tau Ceti

Chromian Corndum wins against Parsec Storm( well if the third blaster would make extra damage it would work lmao)
Chromian Corundum loses against Blazin Lava(long fight both can win)
Chromian Corundum wins against Emperor( Emperor had better days years ago. Emperor could win with a small chance)
Blazing Lava wins against Quartz( i m not say anything)
Blazin Lava wins against Parsec Storm(poor storm)
Hunter loses against Wolfhound(embarrassing for the hunter. Hunter has no chance.)
Black Slate wins against Panther(funny long fight. Panther has no chance)
Disruptor wins against Thunderbird(food for the canon. thunderbird could win but it is not easy)
Disruptor loses against Chromian Corundum (most winner chromi. disruptor has no chance)
Paragneiss loses against Chromian Corundum (most winner chromi here thanks to the speed)
Parsec Storm wins against Emperor (decent fight. both can win. parsec storm has the upperhand here)
Parsec Storm wins against Black Slate (hard fight. both can win, but Storm is better here armor means nothing for damage)

e.g for Sirius and Draconis*

Disruptor wins against Chromian Corundum( after multiple times PvP the Disruptor has the upperhand here)
Hunter wins against Chromian Corundum with a death wish(both could win, but chromi has a better chance. long fight.)
Chromian Corundum wins against Paragneiss(well...)
Parsec Storm wins against Quartz( decent fight. both can win)
Quartz wins against Blazin Lava( blazin lava has the upperhand here but the quartz has also a chance)
Terrorizer wins against Hunter(decent but long fight)

Can't tell if you are being serious or not, some of these are extremely questionable and as we can see many others agree as well;
How does a Hunter lose to a Wolfhound ? Really, how does it ? xD
How does a Terrorizer beat a Hunter ? How does 1 Stun Dome overcome the combination of Sniper Blaster + Attack Charge ? (those are the relevant items that distinguish the 2 ships)
How does a Chromian lose to a Blazing Lava in TC ? I've even beaten Lavas in my Deep Recurrent Onyx, let alone use a Chromian...there are videos out there showcasing the ridiculous ease with which the Chromian beats the Lava in TC (the fight is much closer in the lower systems, though).

 

[Vesperion]

Can't tell if you are being serious or not, some of these are extremely questionable and as we can see many others agree as well;

I think a impact may be the Server and skill if King Sub is only playing on Korell where PvP may be played differently and in return can result in such discrepancies between Askone and other Servers.

In the end it all boils down own Skill and "Item awareness" cus if you can keep track to some degree you can basically "tell what item is ready and when it will be ready again to counter it". Aside from that even as a non PvP Pilot i can at least agree that a pilot losing against a Wolf is embarassing as hell considering that it has only a blaster as damage item and a Prot.

I can only assume here that the Hunter pilot for some reason may have taken the fight in the RTurr radius and even then it still is strange that the Hunter lost considering that with Buff and Speed it would outheal the RTurr easily.

 

[BrunoBugi]

There are 2 main issues with pvp content atm, not just the balance.
First it's the game design:
-pvp content is far more expensive(drones, ships, configs...) than pve content which wont encourage people to buy more ships and boosters but rather will limit the audience of pvp content to those who already play pvp without new content
-makin rare seasonal content also very strong(such as ifrit, football drones and rdx ships) is a pve game mechanic and further demotivates players from playing pvp
-strong and rapid items can under no circumstance have same dpm, strong allows playing for timings and gives far more control over the battle
-paying cryonite to install same level/power items combined with having no official data or testing area restricts testing and further limits reach of pvp content and increases resistance to balance changes
-stop removing items from minimap (os,mines and such), ty (if item look is the problem use new icons or colors)

Moving onto 2nd,item balance:
-for competitive player scene high ammount of randomness is bad, limit damage variation on items to 10-20% and make hit/miss cript more consistent in short term unless there are plans to buff ship armors
-pve and pvp content are currently based on different power levels, not adding a modifier to item/ship power that differentiates them will create future balance whine from 1 group
-aoe items missing visual indicators or description of actual aoe
-some ship armor relations make no sense, lava having more than parsec for example
-perf - does nothing vs shieldless ships, add effect that increases global ship damage when target has no shield
-aimpc- delete chance to miss(targets without active scram), balance with crit chance
-shield- increase duration by 20%, lower cd
-taunt- it does nothing, add an actual effect to it, disabling target ab, increasing damage taunt used does to it?
-scram - change hit/miss formula, make it consistent
-bomb- lower cd to orbital cd
-beacon, does nothing except promoting magnet traps, give it blaster or effect that impacts the gameplay
-speed act- disable lowering speed act cd with speed act
-dome- lower cd, increase stacking power stun charge so target with both used on it cannot do any action
-rt- lower cd
-prot- increase duration by 50+%, increase power of normal and rapid
-mat- balance around %hp after revival instead of duration only
-mines- explosion delay should be consistent, not depending on server, killing mines stops them from exploding (nice meme these explosions)
-turrets- higher hp, taking dmg doesnt disable following
-att droid- reusable after activation to designate target
-leap- ignore global item cd
-magnet- decouple armor in pvp and pve then rebalance hp
-lightning- increase dmg
-reflect droid- link to ship hp with weaker effect than being hit directly
-ab- lower cd of slower ones
-rd- lower cd of longer ones

Actual values of each change requires testing and will cause the need to change ship hp and movement speed after items are rebalanced.
Fix rendering issues in pvp, if player uses afterburner they want to enter the fight sooner not later.
Idea is to make each ship and item usable for a role instead of needing to rebalance the game every 2 years.

 

[Eredin]

There are 2 main issues with pvp content atm, not just the balance.
First it's the game design:
-pvp content is far more expensive(drones, ships, configs...) than pve content which wont encourage people to buy more ships and boosters but rather will limit the audience of pvp content to those who already play pvp without new content
-makin rare seasonal content also very strong(such as ifrit, football drones and rdx ships) is a pve game mechanic and further demotivates players from playing pvp
-strong and rapid items can under no circumstance have same dpm, strong allows playing for timings and gives far more control over the battle
-paying cryonite to install same level/power items combined with having no official data or testing area restricts testing and further limits reach of pvp content and increases resistance to balance changes
-stop removing items from minimap (os,mines and such), ty (if item look is the problem use new icons or colors)

Moving onto 2nd,item balance:
-for competitive player scene high ammount of randomness is bad, limit damage variation on items to 10-20% and make hit/miss cript more consistent in short term unless there are plans to buff ship armors
-pve and pvp content are currently based on different power levels, not adding a modifier to item/ship power that differentiates them will create future balance whine from 1 group
-aoe items missing visual indicators or description of actual aoe
-some ship armor relations make no sense, lava having more than parsec for example
-perf - does nothing vs shieldless ships, add effect that increases global ship damage when target has no shield
-aimpc- delete chance to miss(targets without active scram), balance with crit chance
-shield- increase duration by 20%, lower cd
-taunt- it does nothing, add an actual effect to it, disabling target ab, increasing damage taunt used does to it?
-scram - change hit/miss formula, make it consistent
-bomb- lower cd to orbital cd
-beacon, does nothing except promoting magnet traps, give it blaster or effect that impacts the gameplay
-speed act- disable lowering speed act cd with speed act
-dome- lower cd, increase stacking power stun charge so target with both used on it cannot do any action
-rt- lower cd
-prot- increase duration by 50+%, increase power of normal and rapid
-mat- balance around %hp after revival instead of duration only
-mines- explosion delay should be consistent, not depending on server, killing mines stops them from exploding (nice meme these explosions)
-turrets- higher hp, taking dmg doesnt disable following
-att droid- reusable after activation to designate target
-leap- ignore global item cd
-magnet- decouple armor in pvp and pve then rebalance hp
-lightning- increase dmg
-reflect droid- link to ship hp with weaker effect than being hit directly
-ab- lower cd of slower ones
-rd- lower cd of longer ones

Actual values of each change requires testing and will cause the need to change ship hp and movement speed after items are rebalanced.
Fix rendering issues in pvp, if player uses afterburner they want to enter the fight sooner not later.
Idea is to make each ship and item usable for a role instead of needing to rebalance the game every 2 years.