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Lightning Chain Buff

dijar

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Right now Lightning chain is so weak that it barely compares to other weapons, especially with fewer targets. When you're fighting against 1 enemy LC does about the same damage as blaster but has longer cd than rocket. So my idea is that LC should always hit 6 times no matter how many targets are in range, even if there's only 1 target it will bounce off you 6 times to the target. But not to make it so OP it should have a damage fallout of 50% every time it hits the same target so there's still a bigger damage pool when you fight against more enemies. LC strikes aren't instant so if your target moves away from you or from last enemy hit by it, you will lose that extra damage.
Here are some examples against stationary targets:


  • Against 1 enemy:
    Current: 10 total dmg. After buff: 10+5+2.5+1.3+0.7+0.4 = 19.9 total dmg
    Against 2 enemies:
    Current: 10+10 = 20 total dmg. After buff: 10+10+5+5+2.5+2.5 = 35 total dmg
    Against 3 enemies:
    Current: 10+10+10 = 30 total dmg. After buff: 10+10+10+5+5+5 = 45 total dmg
    Against 4 enemies:
    Current: 10+10+10+10 = 40 total dmg. After buff: 10+10+10+10+5+5 = 50 total dmg
    Against 5 enemies:
    Current: 10+10+10+10+10 = 50 total dmg. After buff: 10+10+10+10+10+5 = 55 total dmg
    Against 6 enemies or more:
    Current: 10+10+10+10+10+10 = 60 total dmg. After buff 10+10+10+10+10+10 = 60 total dmg (which is pretty much idential)
In addition to this i believe LC should also have a crit chance to make good use of that aim pc.
Please share what you think about this idea :D
 

Redthorne

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Making the LC bounce off the same enemy multiple times sounds great!
However i'm concerned about adding a crit chance, this game already has enough RNG to deal with, having a reliable weapon would be great.
 

destroier6

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Please! Make LC bounce, its sound really good! :!: :D
 

destroier6

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Please! Make LC bounce in the same enemy, its sound really good! :!: :D
 

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Well the design goal of the LC is not to have infinite utility no matter how much enemies you're fighting against. The goal was to make certain shipclasses (which include LC) to reach the efficiency limit with a certain amount of enemies, so thoses classes are shining a lot against many enemies at the same time.

If you would have played more with the LC, you would have noticed, that under special circumstances it can even hit 8-9 enemies. I am still figuring out how this scenario is triggered, but it definitely happened xD!
Also if timed well, the distance of the LC feels like two times more than the sniperblaster.

The overall utility is really great and it doesn't need to compete the same as (e.g.) an Orbital Strike when it comes to a fight against 2 or 3 enemies, that's why it is a bad idea to buff the damage, because it will only step into the "game breaking" direction, especially later in Conquest Battles.
 

dijar

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NGSpeed said:
Well the design goal of the LC is not to have infinite utility no matter how much enemies you're fighting against. The goal was to make certain shipclasses (which include LC) to reach the efficiency limit with a certain amount of enemies, so thoses classes are shining a lot against many enemies at the same time.

If you would have played more with the LC, you would have noticed, that under special circumstances it can even hit 8-9 enemies. I am still figuring out how this scenario is triggered, but it definitely happened xD!
Also if timed well, the distance of the LC feels like two times more than the sniperblaster.

The overall utility is really great and it doesn't need to compete the same as (e.g.) an Orbital Strike when it comes to a fight against 2 or 3 enemies, that's why it is a bad idea to buff the damage, because it will only step into the "game breaking" direction, especially later in Conquest Battles.
Well the point of my post was to buff damage dealt when fighting fewer targets, when there are 6 enemies or more LC remains identical, but i really dont want to have a second blaster which u can use every 20 seconds or so when fighting just 1 enemy.
 

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You didn't get the point. The LC wants you to engage more than one target, so you use it wisely on several targets. The DPS increase is not designed for 1v1 Situations, so you need to force more enemies to hit during PVE and in PVP you have to do the same and accept that other classes NEED to outclass you in a 1v1 like the Hunter Parsec or Obsidian, therefore you would outclass them in 3v3 or 5v5. So it is about scaling, the only solution to buff a single lightning bolt of the LC would be to decrease the total enemies that are possible to hit by 1 or 2 targets and then make each bolt stronger, but this would mean high opportunity costs for utility and less fun in lower systems.
If you only put your focus on 1v1 you clearly didn't understand what this component is about. Basically what you want the LC to be strong in everything at any time, in terms of balancing the LC would be way too strong, if it has the highest dps in 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, 1v4, 1v5, 1v6 and 1v7 scenarios. Shipclasses with LC feel the most comfortable with other LC-classes, so they can run into a lot of enemies and deal tones of damage.
Tip: play around the strength of the LC not its weakness!
 

dijar

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NGSpeed said:
You didn't get the point. The LC wants you to engage more than one target, so you use it wisely on several targets. The DPS increase is not designed for 1v1 Situations, so you need to force more enemies to hit during PVE and in PVP you have to do the same and accept that other classes NEED to outclass you in a 1v1 like the Hunter Parsec or Obsidian, therefore you would outclass them in 3v3 or 5v5. So it is about scaling, the only solution to buff a single lightning bolt of the LC would be to decrease the total enemies that are possible to hit by 1 or 2 targets and then make each bolt stronger, but this would mean high opportunity costs for utility and less fun in lower systems.
If you only put your focus on 1v1 you clearly didn't understand what this component is about. Basically what you want the LC to be strong in everything at any time, in terms of balancing the LC would be way too strong, if it has the highest dps in 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, 1v4, 1v5, 1v6 and 1v7 scenarios. Shipclasses with LC feel the most comfortable with other LC-classes, so they can run into a lot of enemies and deal tones of damage.
Tip: play around the strength of the LC not its weakness!
Even after buff the LC would still have less damage than other weapons, i dont know if u skipped the part about damage reduction on same target but whatever, after buff LC would do about same damage as SB (instead of blaster) in 1v1 and have much longer CD than it, also you can still dodge that extra damage by running away, so it definitely wouldnt make it "too strong" as you put it in terms of balancing and it would have that same scaling concept where total damage pool is much higher with more enemies. And i also said nothing about buffing the damage of a single lightning bolt but just having a fixed amount of bolts that have drastically reduced damage every time they hit the same target. In a 1v1 PVP fight its would still be a redundant weapon because of low dmg and short range.

You mentioned CQ as an example of why it would be a bad idea to buff LC so i assumed you didnt understand what i meant, since in CQ you usually fight against 6+ enemies in which case it wouldnt change anything (that is unless you want a nerf to LC instead of a buff :p ). You also said that it would have the highest DPS in 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, 1v4, 1v5, 1v6 and 1v7, which is not true because even now in a 1v6 it really doesn't.
 

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I get the point that a new bouncing bolt is weaker on a target that has been hit before.
If you only hit one target and the "chain" is bouncing again, than it is not considered a "chain" anymore, than it would be more of a "lightning strike", because obviously a chain needs to bounce off at least between two targets to consider it a chain.
The DPS efficiency on more targets follows currently an order like this: 100%-200%-300%-400%-500%-600%[-700%-...it is not really proven how many target can be hit, we leave this topic for later stages, when we found out how this works]
This means the increase is linearly. Damage-Efficiency-Bonus: per enemy 100%.

Your buff example would look like this:
1 Target__2 Targets__3 Targets__4 Targets__5 Targets__6 Targets
__19.9______ 35_______45________50_______55________60
__100%____177.78%__228.57%___253.97%__279.37%___304.76%
___/______+77,78%__+28,57%___+11,11%____+10%____+9.09% (Damage-Efficiency-Bonus)

Since this is a mix of a linear increase function add up with a decreasing exponential function. Here the efficiency drop is really strange because of the hole function.

So I thought changing the damage reduction from dividing by 2 was the mistake, so tried it with dividing by 6 -results:
1 Target__2 Targets__3 Targets__4 Targets__5 Targets__6 Targets
11.9987___23.8888___35,0001___43.3334___51.6667_____60
__100%____199.09%___291,7%___361,15%___430,6%____500.05%
___/______+99.09%__+46.51%___+23.8%____+19.23%___+16.13% (Damage-Efficiency-Bonus)
Like this, the change of the efficiency decrease rate would look more healthy (Bonus is almost halving itself for an amout of targets between 2-4, but still with the 5th target it just gets weird as before), but this would be more compareable to the Damage-Efficiency-Bonus-levels which are on live-servers.

What happens generally? The more Mantis you fight against, the more damage you need to tank. So with each Mantis the damage to tank increases by +100%, making it 100%-200%-300%-400%-500%-600%, the same we could say with pvp without looking specificly at the shipclasses. So the risk in facing several enemies in PVE is a big factor which makes it logical that that the risk you have and the damage output your LC provides, are in a harmony in a scale of 1:1.
Else for each enemy the DamageOutput-DamageInput-risk-ratio will shift like this with your numbers
1 Targets = 2:1
2 Targets = 1,75:1
3 Targets = 1,5:1
4 Targets = 1,25:1
5 Targets = 1,1:1
6 Targets = 1:1
These risk ratios prove that the more enemies your are facing the less it is worth to deal more damage while taking also more damage at the same time. The concept of the lightning chain will switch from trying to to fight at least 4-5 enemies to only fight against 1-3 enemies maximumly because the benefit of more damge is not worth risking. The lightning chain is the first ship component in the game to be a double-edged sword (I know there is the ifrit cortex aswell, but it isn't a ship component xD)

The risk ratios of my try inspired by your idea would look more viable like this:
1 Targets = 1,2:1 (my opinion: it makes no sense to bounce off the the same target to hit it again and again)
2 Targets = 1,195:1
3 Targets = 1,167:1
4 Targets = 1,083:1
5 Targets = 1,033:1
6 Targets = 1:1
The DamageOutput-DamageInput-risk-ratio will buff like this slightly and be more consistent in different scenarios against mulitple targets. So the risk ratio will still be "riskier" to fight against more enemies, but the benefits are in comparisons to the risk ratios above more worth taking.
 

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Watch this magic pls :D

https://youtu.be/yqh0dlOHN_E
 

NGSpeed

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some love for the lightning chain <3

https://youtu.be/0TL9TCjYiPc
 

dijar

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So they nerfed even that, maybe its better to not ask for changes at all ...


Capture.PNG
 

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dijar said:
So they nerfed even that, maybe its better to not ask for changes at all ...


It´s the same like with the initial OS when it had this insane double strike ability where it did impact during the start and at the end of the ability.

And well if someone thinks that he/she needs to post an obvious "feature" and even makes an vid about it it´s clear that the "nerf" will come sooner or later.

Aside from that Split announced that the jump was intended to hit 6 - 8 times or something around that.
 

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Don't worry guys, this "mechanic"/bug wasn't really gamechanging since it just worked effectively against interceptors, in regular pve against same level units it was not an option and during the stacking of so much interceptors, I could have used 3 rockets and 2 LCs, that means the clear speed wasn't influenced, but it looked a lot cooler and it felt better, but this causes soon that the client will start to lag a lot.
In the next videos I will show two more bugs caused by the LC and maybe one of them you even experienced already on your own. The next bug reveals will buff the LC, trust me ;-)
I have no real schedules for those videos, I start with the editing when I feel like it
 
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