Aggrobomb/Ancient Legionary

[SpritHunter]

Some ships in the game rely on the aggrobomb to deal their damage effectively ( VQ, Legionary, Dominator to name a few).
Problem is the aggrobombs cooldown is too long, while its damage is not amazing, and its range is also - small.
All the ancient ships are well balanced at the moment imo, but the Legionary.
Raven, Raider and Ghost are good support ships with utility. Punisher has damage. Myst is the all rounder ( which actually is the best at anything but support and raw damage lol).
What is the Legionary supposed to do? It has the worst armour, its speed is not great, and the damage is only given by its rockets ( if they hit) and a bomb which has an insanely long cd.
An orbital strike does what a bomb does but with more dmg and a much shorter cooldown.
My suggestion:
- reduce bomb cooldown by 25% OR increase its dmg so it does 25% more dmg than the corresponding OS. ( Sirius ancient os < - > sirius ancient aggrobomb)
-increase bomb range to what it was before. Its supposed to be a *bomb* right?
(or just more than os by 20%)
- Increase armour of Ancient Legionary by 20%. At the moment its literally the worst armour among all ancient ships - due to that it can't even use the aggrobomb to draw aggro to itself well.

 

[dontbelive]

1++

 

[SpritHunter]

Legionary health is actually better than 3 ancient ships ghost, punisher, and raider. What outdated info are you using? They all do have speed actuator and aim scrambler, high dps, or shield to make them better of course.

It suffers from always being a better ancient ship to use. Wanted some dps? Use punisher of course. Mat for support? Raven with its rep target or ghost/raider for rep field are better. Actually it cant even heal a ship it remats making its support ability even worse. Dome and aggrobomb? Myst has dome and os which is simply (and should be) better than aggrobomb. What does that leave legi? Collection to decrypt ne0n ships.

My bad if my info is outdated, can you link an armor estimation? I am using the one done in 2017 from hitchikers, where myst has highest, lowest 2 being puni and legi.

 

[KingSub]

what you all say about the legionary is not true at all. the legionary was one of the ships with the best armor im sirius and had the upper hand against puni in pvp. Stundome the punisher and give him a powerful strong aggro bomb and pair of blasters, he has no chance.

after adjusting armor years earlier (Preparation for tc i guess) he naturally got weaker in terms of armor, as well as the punisher. Myst has in my opinion the best armor.

I think the armor adjustment is not about stealing armor from us, but rather that we are not too strong in tau ceti. Imagine the old lvl 85 armor on venar. weakened by 3 lvl. Which armor ist stronger? Ancient lvl 82? Or Ancient lvl 85? Next step is the first Tau Ceti Armor, its lvl 91.

Ancient Armor 2012-2015 Lvl 85 ---> Tau Ceti Armor 6 lvl higher 91

Ancient Armor 2018-2020 Lvl 82 ---> Tau Crti Armor 9 lvl higher 91 too.

So, which is stronger? I say the 6 lvl Armor is stronger because the lvl 85 armor is stronger then lvl 82 armor.

You can also see the ancient armor as thermograde armor for tc.

I think an increase in armor could messed that up.

Thanks for reading .

 

[SpritHunter]

what you all say about the legionary is not true at all. the legionary was one of the ships with the best armor im sirius and had the upper hand against puni in pvp. Stundome the punisher and give him a powerful strong aggro bomb and pair of blasters, he has no chance.

after adjusting armor years earlier (Preparation for tc i guess) he naturally got weaker in terms of armor, as well as the punisher. Myst has in my opinion the best armor.

I think the armor adjustment is not about stealing armor from us, but rather that we are not too strong in tau ceti. Imagine the old lvl 85 armor on venar. weakened by 3 lvl. Which armor ist stronger? Ancient lvl 82? Or Ancient lvl 85? Next step is the first Tau Ceti Armor, its lvl 91.

Ancient Armor 2012-2015 Lvl 85 ---> Tau Ceti Armor 6 lvl higher 91

Ancient Armor 2018-2020 Lvl 82 ---> Tau Crti Armor 9 lvl higher 91 too.

So, which is stronger? I say the 6 lvl Armor is stronger because the lvl 85 armor is stronger then lvl 82 armor.

You can also see the ancient armor as thermograde armor for tc.

I think an increase in armor could messed that up.

Thanks for reading .

Yes but still where does this leave Legionary? There's always a better ship to use and tbh the aggrobomb on it straigh dissapointing.
Also at the moment i am definetly not saying the armour buff should make it stronger than Prototype ships. No.
Just in line with Myst because:
-it doesn't have the firepower of Punisher.
-it doesn't have the staying power of Myst.
- it can't support like Raven, Raider, Ghost.
At least let it have armour...

 

[KingSub]

Yes but still where does this leave Legionary? There's always a better ship to use and tbh the aggrobomb on it straigh dissapointing.
Also at the moment i am definetly not saying the armour buff should make it stronger than Prototype ships. No.
Just in line with Myst because:
-it doesn't have the firepower of Punisher.
-it doesn't have the staying power of Myst.
- it can't support like Raven, Raider, Ghost.
At least let it have armour...

I will test drive legionary and other ancient ships and give u my thoughst.

 

[Darkos]

Before the armor update, lthe legionary was having good armor and was usefull for new players in sirius without another ship (considering that ships drop very rarely, it was the case in my server, trantor).
It was not a damage dealer but was interesting to use in Clan Mission and of course was abandonned as soon as another ship Bp was found.
Today, the armor of legionary is paper so the ship is more useless than before.
I think that giving it armor again could be cool but in the end you have so much better ancient ships for the same price.
The base problem of legionary is the items, you have better with less cd and more efficiency.
You can have a better bomb, better rocket better stun, but it will always be inferior to other ancient ships as said above.
But in terms of logic (to me), if it can't have an insane damage output or heal then it needs armor, not as strong as before but atleast Dps armor (rocket is not really making a lot of damage for me , it misses a lot).

 

[KingSub]

Before the armor update, lthe legionary was having good armor and was usefull for new players in sirius without another ship (considering that ships drop very rarely, it was the case in my server, trantor).
It was not a damage dealer but was interesting to use in Clan Mission and of course was abandonned as soon as another ship Bp was found.
Today, the armor of legionary is paper so the ship is more useless than before.
I think that giving it armor again could be cool but in the end you have so much better ancient ships for the same price.
The base problem of legionary is the items, you have better with less cd and more efficiency.
You can have a better bomb, better rocket better stun, but it will always be inferior to other ancient ships as said above.
But in terms of logic (to me), if it can't have an insane damage output or heal then it needs armor, not as strong as before but atleast Dps armor (rocket is not really making a lot of damage for me , it misses a lot).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...mkaGCJQIxOS87XZp4G4GASu3HJ8/edit?usp=drivesdk look at this.

 

[Darkos]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...mkaGCJQIxOS87XZp4G4GASu3HJ8/edit?usp=drivesdk look at this.

So the legionary is very paper if i follow these datas and if you look, many ships with more dps than legionary has more hp which is complete non sense to me.

Why punisher has a lot less armor than paragneiss with almost the same DPS ? ( and the paragneiss has a repair turret....)
Many ships with damage items have a lot of armor and some not, for me this balance is just non sense honestly, it's not just legionary, there is no logic, the strongest armor is on blazing lava which has damage i tems + debuff items while granit has less armor than this ship.
But well it's a known problem since this balance got out, it's not a place to debate of this anyway.
Many ships, not just the legionary need armor change.

 

[KingSub]

So the legionary is very paper if i follow these datas and if you look, many ships with more dps than legionary has more hp which is complete non sense to me.

Why punisher has a lot less armor than paragneiss with almost the same DPS ? ( and the paragneiss has a repair turret....)
Many ships with damage items have a lot of armor and some not, for me this balance is just non sense honestly, it's not just legionary, there is no logic, the strongest armor is on blazing lava which has damage i tems + debuff items while granit has less armor than this ship.
But well it's a known problem since this balance got out, it's not a place to debate of this anyway.
Many ships, not just the legionary need armor change.

I'm not sure if the list is correct or how an ancient ship is so close to tau ceti ships..

 

[KingSub]

I'm not sure if the list is correct or how an ancient ship is so close to tau ceti ships..

I tested and checked all ships and i m shocked what i see here... thats really something

 

[Vesperion]

Basicly this whole issue with armors and ships that "make no sense with the armor and their items" started to happen when in Sirius the Hybrids have been introduced and SSG started to make the one or another "ninja update" and balancing with the armors.

Until Sirius we had a clear definition of what "armor" each ship will have (in it´s core each ship seem to have the same armor but the HP is just the difference so that they look more "defensive" then others). Tanks where as their name said the damage sponges that simply should take as much damage as possible and hold the aggro (what they did until the effort system update) while storms should dish out the dmg to kill the units while stunners kept the enemy down/at place and engies made sure that the pilots stay alive.

With Siri this whole system has been thrown out of the window and nowadays the ships are more valued by either their armor or their item setup then to give a real thought into "what is the role i shine with" so that the most feared thing of "Meta ships" started to show up in the game what i never really thought would ever happen.

I can only speak for Askone here but the most used ships for Siri and TC are the Chrom and Slate while it´s rare to see an Myst or Puni anymore or even any other Siri ship for the CMs. In TC most common ship in use is Chrom, Slate and T-Bird while seeing any other TC ship is more rare then finding any gold BP in the game.

The main reason for the use of Chrom and Slate along with T-Bird is their simple fact of having a Speed as item what makes them excelent ships for many situation so that they not just have an relative good armor but also can use the RD much more efficent what allows some more risky use of those ships. I think the only time i see any other TC ship is if a pilot does the Mission Undercover Job that forces him to use the Hump and in most cases the ship is just equiped with the bare minimum tech to do the mission lol.

The only other time i see the usage of other ships is really if Pilots do a SM that may require some sort of "thought what ship may be the best for the Mission to complete it" but outside of missions it´s "going back to the Meta".

Anyways.... in terms of the Aggro Bomb it simply lost it´s original purpose to generate a ton of Aggro since the Effort System has come into play and basicly if compared to any other AoE Item the Aggro Bombs damage is simply put "way to weak" in terms of the ratio between 1st uage and re-usage what is nearly 2x the CD of OS or Mine so that overal they deal and create more aggro then the Bomb could ever do anymore.

 

[KingSub]

Basicly this whole issue with armors and ships that "make no sense with the armor and their items" started to happen when in Sirius the Hybrids have been introduced and SSG started to make the one or another "ninja update" and balancing with the armors.

Until Sirius we had a clear definition of what "armor" each ship will have (in it´s core each ship seem to have the same armor but the HP is just the difference so that they look more "defensive" then others). Tanks where as their name said the damage sponges that simply should take as much damage as possible and hold the aggro (what they did until the effort system update) while storms should dish out the dmg to kill the units while stunners kept the enemy down/at place and engies made sure that the pilots stay alive.

With Siri this whole system has been thrown out of the window and nowadays the ships are more valued by either their armor or their item setup then to give a real thought into "what is the role i shine with" so that the most feared thing of "Meta ships" started to show up in the game what i never really thought would ever happen.

I can only speak for Askone here but the most used ships for Siri and TC are the Chrom and Slate while it´s rare to see an Myst or Puni anymore or even any other Siri ship for the CMs. In TC most common ship in use is Chrom, Slate and T-Bird while seeing any other TC ship is more rare then finding any gold BP in the game.

The main reason for the use of Chrom and Slate along with T-Bird is their simple fact of having a Speed as item what makes them excelent ships for many situation so that they not just have an relative good armor but also can use the RD much more efficent what allows some more risky use of those ships. I think the only time i see any other TC ship is if a pilot does the Mission Undercover Job that forces him to use the Hump and in most cases the ship is just equiped with the bare minimum tech to do the mission lol.

The only other time i see the usage of other ships is really if Pilots do a SM that may require some sort of "thought what ship may be the best for the Mission to complete it" but outside of missions it´s "going back to the Meta".

Anyways.... in terms of the Aggro Bomb it simply lost it´s original purpose to generate a ton of Aggro since the Effort System has come into play and basicly if compared to any other AoE Item the Aggro Bombs damage is simply put "way to weak" in terms of the ratio between 1st uage and re-usage what is nearly 2x the CD of OS or Mine so that overal they deal and create more aggro then the Bomb could ever do anymore.

Some ancient ships are on the same level as humpback and bobcat. This is a joke. With the thermograde armor, the ne0n ships get up to .. No i dont want to say that... Ne0n ships sell at high prices for nearly 900k and give marginal thermograde armor .. the Ancient ship laugh at us with that concept.

many things no longer work as they used to. the aggro system. repturm on, repturm directly first target. repfeld on and healer is first target. these are things that have been added over the years. the taunt/aggrobeacon, on the other hand, is a joke. Not much pilots fliyng a healer anymore because it's no longer fun. it is not attractive to get dead everytime just because you turn on targetrepair or repairfield.

-

 

[dontbelive]

Look at the armor of the hunter it's a real joke of all times. Even the Ancient raven has more armor then the Hunter PARSEC that's definitely unfair. Nothing to say anymore about the amor index.
Tested myself the amor of hunter and raven and compared, I think this sheet is correct.

And yes, the aggro system is sucked up in this game.
Aggrobomb and taunt isn't relevant in this
game anymore. If those 2 items will be removed from the game, they would not be missed from any player. Definitely need a rework of the armor and taunt aggrobomb.

Nothing to say anymore.

 

[KingSub]

View attachment 48167

Look at the armor of the hunter it's a real joke of all times. Even the Ancient raven has more armor then the Hunter PARSEC that's definitely unfair. Nothing to say anymore about the amor index.
Tested myself the amor of hunter and raven and compared, I think this sheet is correct.

And yes, the aggro system is sucked up in this game.
Aggrobomb and taunt isn't relevant in this
game anymore. If those 2 items will be removed from the game, they would not be missed from any player. Definitely need a rework of the armor and taunt aggrobomb.

Nothing to say anymore.

Hunter was tested with ancient armor. Locust has the most armor compared to the Ancient ships and with the two Ne0n ships in thermograde armor.

 

[Fission]

Hello pilots,

Clearly the hunter has a low armor, but armor isn't everything on the game, not all ships are made to have a big HP pull, and as its visible in-game, hunter is still a quite popular ship thanks to its item combination and speed.

There are some ships that are made for some specific tasks, not all of them need to be super tanky So a speed tier list would also help to show some important stuff, in many situations, speed is also a big way of survability

I would also like to point out, that if aggrobomb is such useless as mentioned here, i wonder why the Veiled Quartz is being used so much during all the PTR Conquests by many players due to this exact ability combined with the perforator ^^

Also i would like to ask how this tests has been made, since the same item can't be used to extract armors of different ships that have different levels, since then, the PvP balance is reducing the damage done.

Why punisher has a lot less armor than paragneiss with almost the same DPS ? ( and the paragneiss has a repair turret....)
Many ships with damage items have a lot of armor and some not, for me this balance is just non sense honestly, it's not just legionary, there is no logic.

Keep in mind u are comparing a ancient ship, with a raven/parsec ship, which have 20% more HP than what would have with the current setup, if u remove those 20% extra armor recieved by being a raven/parsec class, u would see its way closer to the called punisher. But it is really fair to compare a ship that costs 2/3 more times than a ancient ship? Should a ship that is way cheaper, have same or even more effect than a way more expensive ship?

 

[dontbelive]

Hello pilots,

Clearly the hunter has a low armor, but armor isn't everything on the game, not all ships are made to have a big HP pull, and as its visible in-game, hunter is still a quite popular ship thanks to its item combination and speed.

There are some ships that are made for some specific tasks, not all of them need to be super tanky So a speed tier list would also help to show some important stuff, in many situations, speed is also a big way of survability

I would also like to point out, that if aggrobomb is such useless as mentioned here, i wonder why the Veiled Quartz is being used so much during all the PTR Conquests by many players due to this exact ability combined with the perforator ^^

Also i would like to ask how this tests has been made, since the same item can't be used to extract armors of different ships that have different levels, since then, the PvP balance is reducing the damage done.



Keep in mind u are comparing a ancient ship, with a raven/parsec ship, which have 20% more HP than what would have with the current setup, if u remove those 20% extra armor recieved by being a raven/parsec class, u would see its way closer to the called punisher. But it is really fair to compare a ship that costs 2/3 more times than a ancient ship? Should a ship that is way cheaper, have same or even more effect than a way more expensive ship?

Well, if u compare quartz and emperor items, quartz is a better choice for pvp/conquest due to aggrobomb, cuz it deals instant dmg compared to thermoblast which deals dmg over time, thats a huge difference and both uses perforator and sniperblast. Quartz shouldn't be reduced to pvp/Co quest fights. On one quartz really have less firepower bcuz of the aggrobomb cd. İt might be good pvp ship, but it's not good at all for pve.

About the hunter armor, comparing the hunter with the punisher both with ancient armor, why should someone use the hunter in siri if there is the punisher with much more firepower and alot cheaper than the parsec Hunter. Both of the ships uses speed item.

Just my opinion, old parsecs gets less attention by the players due to unbalanced settings in the game made eq armor etc.

I built the hunter parsec foe TC configuration but now I regret it bcuz it's too much expensive compared to thunderbird (both uses speed) and comparing the dmg thunderbird clearly wins in terms of armor and dmg. And look at the price, the neon thunderbird is alot more cheaper than the hunter.
I just don't understand why the old parsecs have such less armor.
I also don't unterstand the aggro mechanic in the game. The aggrobomb should be damaged focused these times and not aggro focused, cuz the aggro mechanic is a mess.

 

[KingSub]

None of that would have happened if devs kept the old mechanics. Well, who likes to fly healer ships or tanks? or the hell who still flys an granite? the mechanics and aggro system is a disaster. the one who gives target repair or repair field is immediately targeted and works better than a taunt or beacon.everyone who uses repair skills is immediately target number 1. It wasn't before. Healer ships would like to be built there. Tanks were flown, the Dominator and Granite was an amazing ship. could fill up and hold aggro. that is what the tankers do.

The ships can no longer do what they supposed to do, because the mechanics have been scrapped and not improved.

But who are we telling this?

 

[Fission]

The aggro of tanks surely might need a rebalance, but the fact that healers have a big aggro (should be lower than tanks) its completely logical and many games has it, its the holy trinity of aggro that is seen in most of the games. In this case, the fact that healers have more aggro than DPS is logical, the only issue that could happen here right now is that tanks aren't managing to get enough aggro, which can be easily reworked.

I see many healers in-game honestly, normally its only needed to play it safely.

Not all ships can be OP in all aspects on the game, PvP, PvE, missions, grinding, etc. Each ship must have their spot, some are a bit behind and some a bit ahead, but that's matter of a bit of rebalancing.

The granite was mostly flown because it was OP, as it was able to solo sirius bosses. In 90% scenarios tanks were actually used as solo ships, not as tank ships, there is a big difference between one and the other.

Right now Hunter is one of the top tier meta ships on PvP, and it might be behind others on PvE like the thunderbird, but that's because as i said, not all ships can be super good at everything, there are some that are 4x4, that can do most jobs quite good, but without shining in any, those ships could be ones as the Emperor, Veiled Quartz, Myst, Hawkmoth, etc. Basically ships that have a combination of items that make them useful for more aspects of the game. But in many cases, they aren't the shining ship in any of those, just an overall good ship for most tasks.

I would prefer if the critics can keep being constructive, there is no need to critize as if "its a disaster" and such.

Thank you

 

[Vesperion]

[...]why should someone use the hunter in siri if there is the punisher with much more firepower and alot cheaper than the parsec Hunter. Both of the ships uses speed item.[...]

Call me crazy but i would and this for 2 simple reasons.
1st the Rocket of the Puni can miss so that it is more related to RNG and 2nd once the Thermo is out it can not be used for quite some time (even with Speed). So overall the Hunter is still the better choice of those 2 due it has an constand damage output and can increase it´s damage and from the times it´s nearly the same as the Thermo so that all in all both ships break down to the Blaster and SB.

What brings it me if i have an additional attack item that can miss and in return "waste" one cylce of using the Blaster/SB instead?

From my experience the hunter is a nice ship to fly and i even prefer it over the T-Bird even when it has way more damage potential but it can create the risk of "unwanted" attention if a LC goes crazy and jumps to a unit that may just have entered the last pixel of range and then jump to some more units... sure T-Bird is a ship that needs to be used correctly for most effectiveness but it is like with all other things in the end the pilot itself can make a ship "good" or "bad" when flying it.

[...]the mechanics and aggro system is a disaster. the one who gives target repair or repair field is immediately targeted and works better than a taunt or beacon.everyone who uses repair skills is immediately target number 1. It wasn't before.[...]

Again... "Effort System" is to blame what was impleneted ironically to help Engi Pilots to gain some more XP due the old system more focused around the dmg dealt where the DPS ships clearly had the lead in terms of XP gain what in the end is pointless cus sooner or later you will hit the required level + in theory more killed units until the next level = more potential Cry

[...]its the holy trinity of aggro that is seen in most of the games. In this case, the fact that healers have more aggro than DPS is logical, the only issue that could happen here right now is that tanks aren't managing to get enough aggro,[...]

Sry Fission... but no...
The holy trinity of the classes is that Tanks generate and hold the Aggro so that the DPS and Healers not go down just cus the Enemy is looking at them... The Old Aggro system did what it should and that was if an Aggro Beacon was droped, a Taunt or Aggro Bomb was used the aggro was "bound" until the effect ended or the unit was killed. If i remember correctly it had something to do with the "initial damage" or so that created this effect in the game.

Now you can drop a beacon or use taunt/bomb all you want send at least an dps or engi into the battle and the aggro will switch within seconds so that the "tank items" are obsolete atm.

[...]the only issue that could happen here right now is that tanks aren't managing to get enough aggro, which can be easily reworked.[...]

Taunts Rework
Expand this idea to Beacons and Bomb and you should be golden to make those items "interesting" to use again.