Ancient Legionary & Ghost

[SpritHunter]

Ancient ships are pretty balanced now for their price to performance, and most ships have a spot:
Myst is the all rounder with great items.
Punisher is as always the highest single target dps.
Raven is good 1o1 support.
Raider is decent for party support while dealing some damage.

Legionary has the lowest HP and overall suffers from aggrobomb's drawbacks ( range and cooldown ). Its not the fastest either and has no defense other than the stun dome and repair droid. Perhaps a buff where this ship can excel at something would be nice? It could be something like the ship with most HP from the Ancient ones? It needs that HP to be able to use the aggrobomb and materializer effectively as both need you to be close to allies / enemies.
Ghost suffers from the nerfs to aim scrambler, so perhaps increasing the speed / armor too?
Please buff those ships, no one uses them anymore.

 

[Vesperion]

Well tbf Myst lost a lot of it´s former status of being a good ship as well due of the scram so that mainly the prot is the item it shines with.

Not sure if Split will make any changes like buffs for Ancient ships anymore considering that a majority of the playerbase may have a Parsec/RDX ship for Siri that is used over the ancient ships. I mean even now it is a rare sight to see a player with an Ancient ship in Siri so that mainly new players may have to use them but vets will have the choice to use the "prestige ships" (Parsecs and RDX) over the Ancient ones who of course outperform them in many ways.

 

[hektor.barbossa]

Need just get buff 18% as all ancient items have and be fine ^^
More ppl use rdx on sir anyway so ancients is more for newbie.
Could be great see special buff for ancient ships vs ancient enemys but well now rules rdx who cares ancient ships.

 

[alewx]

Just minor question, how do you expect ship to be balanced? They are based on a system depending on their items, that will grant them hp and speed. Testers can already sing a song of this, but I do not tune the ships by hand individually, as they are based on their classes and therefore on their items.

 

[SpritHunter]

Just minor question, how do you expect ship to be balanced? They are based on a system depending on their items, that will grant them hp and speed. Testers can already sing a song of this, but I do not tune the ships by hand individually, as they are based on their classes and therefore on their items.

If the ship is so balanced, why does no one use it? If it were balanced and useful people would use it more often. Now I ain't saying its an easy task, nor do I mean to be condescending but having a ship that aggrobomb despite not being tanky nor fast and support tools too doesn't sound too good.

 

[GOTIL0N]

From Mizar up, the ships of the system itself that are useful are very specific, to give some examples (speaking for a bit of everything, missions, conquests, farming) in Mizar the scorpion, in Sol the sniper, in Draconis there are people who say that the minelayer but for me it is tremendous garbage XD, the Meta SDX jewel, in Sirius myst and punisher, in Tau Ceti with the current meta I would say that 5, 7 ,8, 9, 10

 

[SpritHunter]

From Mizar up, the ships of the system itself that are useful are very specific, to give some examples (speaking for a bit of everything, missions, conquests, farming) in Mizar the scorpion, in Sol the sniper, in Draconis there are people who say that the minelayer but for me it is tremendous garbage XD, the Meta SDX jewel, in Sirius myst and punisher, in Tau Ceti with the current meta I would say that 5, 7 ,8, 9, 10

What's the point then? Just to have trash ships that no one plays? Its fine to have ships to aim for that are stronger and desirable ( parsecs / rdx ) but ships when compared within their own tier ( ex: Punisher vs Myst ; Kodiak vs Thunderbird ) should be balanced right?

 

[GOTIL0N]

The point of spending 3 million (or more) on a ship is that it has a clear advantage over the common ones in the system

 

[SpritHunter]

The point of spending 3 million (or more) on a ship is that it has a clear advantage over the common ones in the system

I don't think you read or understood what I wrote. I am referring to ancient ships vs other ancient ships. I never made a single point in this thread where I mentioned Legionary / Ghost vs an RDX or Parsec.

 

[GOTIL0N]

Well let's see, each ancient ship is made for a purpose (or at least that is what it is intended to do). For example, you cannot compare an engineer with a storm, a myst has certain purposes, a ghost others

 

[SpritHunter]

Well let's see, each ancient ship is made for a purpose (or at least that is what it is intended to do). For example, you cannot compare an engineer with a storm, a myst has certain purposes, a ghost others

And what is Ancient Legionary's purpose that a Punisher or Raider or Myst cannot do better?

 

[GOTIL0N]

There's a reason I said ''they're supposed to be made for a certain purpose''

 

[Vesperion]

Imo the reason certain ships are considered more are the items they have installed and in return are usefull for certain task in the system the ship is intended to be

I mean during the Siri times the most used ships were Puni and Myst for obvious reasons. Puni was pure and raw power in combination with a Speed while Myst was the "You can´t harm me at all" until the Scram desaster struck. At least i can not really remember times were the other Siri ships were really used aside from those who might not have access to those 2 for the time being and so had to use the other Siri ships or a drac ship with the armor in it.

The actuall shift of Siri ships being "obsolete" happened with the new RDX ships around Para/Crom time were Para and Crom squads were the new Siri Meta due of survivability and power.

From Mizar up, the ships of the system itself that are useful are very specific, to give some examples (speaking for a bit of everything, missions, conquests, farming) in Mizar the scorpion, in Sol the sniper, in Draconis there are people who say that the minelayer but for me it is tremendous garbage XD, the Meta SDX jewel, in Sirius myst and punisher, in Tau Ceti with the current meta I would say that 5, 7 ,8, 9, 10

It already started with Gemini with the main focus was engineer related due of the escort missions left and right.

 

[SpritHunter]

I do remember times when people used all ancient ships. It was around the time Poenari came out.
I certainly don't want RDX ships or Parsecs to be weaker than Ancient ships like the case was with Punisher back before Sirius's rework having Dominator like armor. I do believe that for a good game balance those ships should have a purpose in mind as long as we have to use them for Soris, Giza and Amarna..

Ghost is supposed to be very fast and support allies but it ain't all that fast compared to Punisher, and its perforator has little use. Its support is equaled by Raider ( Speed acurator + repair field ) and the scrambler is debatable when compared to shield. Raider has more armor and damage and is only slightly slower.
Legionary is about dealing damage and supporting allies - however its damage is easily outshined by Myst or Punisher and its support tools are mediocre. Aggrobomb is supposed to grab enemies attention ( its in the name ) but it has the worst HP right after Ghost.
In my opinion a 25% HP buff to Legionary and a 5% to Ghost's speed would put them in their place:
- Legionary's armor would be 10%~ better than Myst ( which offers Protector & Scrambler for defense btw ) making it somewhat of a tank with a bit of support, damage and a materializer.
- Ghost's speed would be significantly better than Legionary and Punisher, so it would have its niche.

 

[alewx]

If the ship is so balanced, why does no one use it? If it were balanced and useful people would use it more often. Now I ain't saying its an easy task, nor do I mean to be condescending but having a ship that aggrobomb despite not being tanky nor fast and support tools too doesn't sound too good.

Because in PG there is the heavy tendency to just use the most powerful meta stuff. even when stuff is balanced it will get dropped due to something that is better.

 

[SpritHunter]

Because in PG there is the heavy tendency to just use the most powerful meta stuff. even when stuff is balanced it will get dropped due to something that is better.

So Legionary compared to Myst is balanced? How? I've been playing since 2013 and I fail to see honestly.
Aggrobomb vs Orbital Strike does less damage and is on a much longer cooldown ( 50% MORE )
Stun domes are equal.
Protector + Aim scrambler vs Materializer and Rockets?

Oh and Myst has about 20% more armor despite having protector and scrambler?

 

[Vesperion]

Because in PG there is the heavy tendency to just use the most powerful meta stuff. even when stuff is balanced it will get dropped due to something that is better.

Isn´t PG only as it exists in every Online game that some sort of Meta exists be it raw power; best synergy, etc.

With the implementation of Hybrids to "holy trinity" of Defender; DD and Healer/Support was broken in PG anyways as now all of a sudden the ships had abilities from at least 2 of those "classes" and so of course shifted the Meta.

So Legionary compared to Myst is balanced? How? I've been playing since 2013 and I fail to see honestly.
Aggrobomb vs Orbital Strike does less damage and is on a much longer cooldown ( 50% MORE )

The Bomb was never really ment to be a damage item considering that it is a tank item and the original purpose was to draw the aggro to the ship who uses it and worked.

However after the change in the aggro system the Bombs main feature of taunting the enemies was rendered more or less useless as now a DD will get the aggro much faster while any ship with support/healing items will be an pure magnet for Aggro.

In case of Legionary i would say at best that the choice of items is strange as it makes not really sense to give a ship that can mat others items that draws the attention to you while you wanna mat someone.

 

[STAIN]

I mean if we dont compare ships like parsecs / rdx'es to these ancient ships which still should have their use in the game (for anyone) i want to say that after aim scrambler obvious nerf ghost from good ship went to bad ship dont pick it... because not only you are dying but also you are not doing anything... raven which was based on tanking instead of evasion item is now way much better... there is no reason to take ghost at all even if we completely forget all rdx etc... i tried to play with legionary and based on its items it should be tankier than punisher because of aggrobomb right? but well its not and also even with damage dealing items it loses alot.. also no defense item and low armor well you guessed it its rock bottom and even new players wont pick it... these two ships from the start have no purpose and after new ships got released they just got forgotten completely... everyone wants to go meta builds its mmo after all but i think its a design issue if from the start both of them were not a good choice for anyone or not focused on any specific task in the game... its the same issue with claw ship in gemini... who in the right mind would take taunt instead of thermo there...? lets not forget that taunt is still the worst item in the game ... aggrobeacon was buffed and its not only useful but it actually works now... so can we please for the love of god finally give these ships atleast more stats and change the taunt thing completely including aggrobomb? the game balance went out the window after releasing pvp overhaul and scaling which removed the peoples will to fight in the game in pirate mode at all... because why vega ship has any chances against a literal god punisher... speed actuator ships are way better than anything because lowering armor makes them way better than anything with armor (looking at you adv tc armor)... heron outdated engineer parsec ... storm -> obsidian , shock -> poe you get the drill... the longer you play the more you see... and among the things you witness you will always see the increasing denial of buffing / nerfing items of old ships so no wonder ppl pick new meta ships... oh wait you cannot get them quickly..? dont worry promos with gold will come sooner or later because they bring money balancing the game does not... writing in forums nowdays brings no results but i guess i will sacrifice my 10min to write this just to see it removed later on because its not praising the game and talks about actual game problems which "testers" didnt want to acknowledge

 

[alewx]

sn´t PG only as it exists in every Online game that some sort of Meta exists be it raw power; best synergy, etc.

Totally true, but as i do not play Eve anymore, and just sporadiccly World of Warships, i observe it mostly here.

So Legionary compared to Myst is balanced? How? I've been playing since 2013 and I fail to see honestly.
Aggrobomb vs Orbital Strike does less damage and is on a much longer cooldown ( 50% MORE )
Stun domes are equal.
Protector + Aim scrambler vs Materializer and Rockets?

Oh and Myst has about 20% more armor despite having protector and scrambler?

I didn't change much about them once i took the balance over, as my system was meant to reflect the current setup and its outcomes but to be safe for future ships so that it is not by hand favoritism.

 

[SpritHunter]

Totally true, but as i do not play Eve anymore, and just sporadiccly World of Warships, i observe it mostly here.


I didn't change much about them once i took the balance over, as my system was meant to reflect the current setup and its outcomes but to be safe for future ships so that it is not by hand favoritism.

All I am trying to say is that while there will always be a meta its healthy and good for a game to manage this by buffing under used and under performing ships to balance things out, or accordingly nerf very used or meta ships. Legio and Ghost are under performing right now in their respective tiers - Ancient Ships.